5 ms·

Me neither, and yet I maintain my opinion.

by plafl 5y ago

vanderZwan 5y ago
That's because Haskell is like the programming language equivalent of The Gig That Changed The World[0], although I guess Algol60 also has a strong claim to that title. Let me explain by quoting these paragraphs Roger Ebert's review[1] of 24h party people: > As the film opens, Wilson is attending the first, legendary Sex Pistols concert in Manchester, England. (...) Wilson is transfixed by the Pistols as they sing "Anarchy in the U.K." and sneer at British tradition. He tells the camera that everyone in the audience will leave the room transformed and inspired, and then the camera pans to show a total of 42 people, two or three of them half-heartedly dancing in the aisles. Sounds like the average language designer entranced and inspired by their first time grokking Haskell. > Wilson features the Pistols and other bands on his Manchester TV show. Because of a ban by London TV, his show becomes the only venue for punk rock. Turns out he was right about the Pistols. They let loose something that changed rock music. And they did it in the only way that Wilson could respect, by thoroughly screwing up everything they did, and ending in bankruptcy and failure, followed by Sid Vicious' spectacular murder-suicide flameout. The Sex Pistols became successful because they failed; if they had succeeded, they would have sold out, or become diluted or commercial. I saw Johnny Rotten a few years ago at Sundance, still failing, and it made me feel proud of him. I could rephrase that last sentence at "I checked out a contalk by Simon Peyton Jones from a few years ago, still avoiding success at all costs[2], and it made me feel proud of him" and it would be absolutely true. And no, I also did not expect to find a parallel between Haskell and punk music, but there you go. [0] https://openculture.com/2015/06/the-sex-pistols-1976-manchester-gig-that-changed-the-world.html https://openculture.com/2015/06/the-sex-pistols-1976-manches... [1] https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/24-hour-party-people-2002 https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/24-hour-party-people-2002 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re96UgMk6GQ&t=1372s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re96UgMk6GQ&t=1372s
- Gatsky 5y ago
  This is the best HN comment I have seen for quite some time.
  - vanderZwan 5y ago
    If you watch the linked SPJ video, I timestamped it at the moment where he explains what he means with "avoiding success at all costs", but also: if you watch a bit longer he shares the story of a GHC compiler bug where if you compiled a module on windows, and in a different directory than the current directory, and it contained a type error... it would tell you there was a type error, and then delete the source file. And instead of people going berserk over this, all he got was some friendly emails from people who just wanted to inform him they bumped into this problem, but it's fine, they had a workaround. Because Haskell people in those days were used to Breaking changes with a capital B. I think that's at least a little bit punk
    - plafl 5y ago
      > it would tell you there was a type error, and then delete the source file Which makes all the sense because Haskell is about avoiding bugs at compile time
- sireat 5y ago
  I wonder what language would be considered post-punk? Scala (experimenting with various styles) comes to mind. How about proto punk? Something like ML?

Me neither, and yet I maintain my opinion.

by plafl 5y ago

Me neither, and yet I maintain my opinion.

That's because Haskell is like the programming language equivalent of The Gig That Changed The World[0], although I guess Algol60 also has a strong claim to that title. Let me explain by quoting these paragraphs Roger Ebert's review[1] of 24h party people: > As the film opens, Wilson is attending the first, legendary Sex Pistols concert in Manchester, England. (...) Wilson is transfixed by the Pistols as they sing "Anarchy in the U.K." and sneer at British tradition. He tells the camera that everyone in the audience will leave the room transformed and inspired, and then the camera pans to show a total of 42 people, two or three of them half-heartedly dancing in the aisles. Sounds like the average language designer entranced and inspired by their first time grokking Haskell. > Wilson features the Pistols and other bands on his Manchester TV show. Because of a ban by London TV, his show becomes the only venue for punk rock. Turns out he was right about the Pistols. They let loose something that changed rock music. And they did it in the only way that Wilson could respect, by thoroughly screwing up everything they did, and ending in bankruptcy and failure, followed by Sid Vicious' spectacular murder-suicide flameout. The Sex Pistols became successful because they failed; if they had succeeded, they would have sold out, or become diluted or commercial. I saw Johnny Rotten a few years ago at Sundance, still failing, and it made me feel proud of him. I could rephrase that last sentence at "I checked out a contalk by Simon Peyton Jones from a few years ago, still avoiding success at all costs[2], and it made me feel proud of him" and it would be absolutely true. And no, I also did not expect to find a parallel between Haskell and punk music, but there you go. [0] https://openculture.com/2015/06/the-sex-pistols-1976-manchester-gig-that-changed-the-world.html https://openculture.com/2015/06/the-sex-pistols-1976-manches... [1] https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/24-hour-party-people-2002 https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/24-hour-party-people-2002 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re96UgMk6GQ&t=1372s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re96UgMk6GQ&t=1372s

Gatsky 5y ago
This is the best HN comment I have seen for quite some time.
- vanderZwan 5y ago
  If you watch the linked SPJ video, I timestamped it at the moment where he explains what he means with "avoiding success at all costs", but also: if you watch a bit longer he shares the story of a GHC compiler bug where if you compiled a module on windows, and in a different directory than the current directory, and it contained a type error... it would tell you there was a type error, and then delete the source file. And instead of people going berserk over this, all he got was some friendly emails from people who just wanted to inform him they bumped into this problem, but it's fine, they had a workaround. Because Haskell people in those days were used to Breaking changes with a capital B. I think that's at least a little bit punk
  - plafl 5y ago
    > it would tell you there was a type error, and then delete the source file Which makes all the sense because Haskell is about avoiding bugs at compile time
sireat 5y ago
I wonder what language would be considered post-punk? Scala (experimenting with various styles) comes to mind. How about proto punk? Something like ML?