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> Telegram defaults to no encryption, This is plain false as can be verified by anyone who can check Telegram GitHub repos or run the app in a debugging enviro

> Telegram defaults to no encryption, This is plain false as can be verified by anyone who can check Telegram GitHub repos or run the app in a debugging environment. Telegram defaults to point-to-point encryption. Same as banks and gmail. Fun fact: back in the days WhatsApp sent messages unencrypted (i.e. as plain text) over port 443(!). > does not do encrypted group chats, again, point-to-point encryption > has a home-rolled encryption protocol which almost guarantees it's weak as nearly every home-rolled encryption system always is (if not also backdoored). Earlier versions had serious problems. Newer versions are supposedly better. Also there is a lot of difference between home-grown cryptography by a math wizard, made open source for everyone to inspect and various secret sauce variants. HN has a long history of claiming it can be trivially broken, yet despite source code being available no one has done it? Lazyness or incompetence? Or maybe it isn't so simple? I don't know but if you want to shut me up and make your claim to fame: do break Telegram cryptography. You'll do the world a service both by exposing it and by shutting up people like me. Meanwhile, stop spreading lies. Telegram is not unencrypted. It is point-to-point encrypted by default. If the encryption is weak, prove it or shut up.

KennyBlanken 5y ago
I obviously was referring to e2ee; everything is point to point encrypted these days. e2ee is turned off by default and cannot be enabled for group chats. I stand by my assertion that Telegram's proprietary secret encryption is nearly guaranteed to be weaker than industry-standard encryption. "Home grown is always weaker" is a well known position of almost the entire crypto community. I further stand by my assertion that Telegram's encryption is nearly guaranteed to be backdoored, because there is literally zero reason for a startup to invest the massive engineering resources needed to successfully develop and maintain its own encryption algorithms, unless they were being paid to do so. The NSA has a long history of backdooring private encryption technology through industry "partnerships." Do you seriously think Putin would allow a domestic company to develop a communication tool that would allow Russians to communicate with each other in complete privacy? > prove it or shut up. Go read the HN commenting policy (specifically around civility) or shut up.
- skinkestek 5y ago
  > I obviously was referring to e2ee; So you admit you weren't just spreading inaccuracies you heard from someone else but you knew you were posting disinformation. > I further stand by my assertion that Telegram's encryption is nearly guaranteed to be backdoored, because there is literally zero reason for a startup to invest the massive engineering resources needed to successfully develop and maintain its own encryption algorithms, unless they were being paid to do so. This is a good argument. > Do you seriously think Putin would allow a domestic company to develop a communication tool that would allow Russians to communicate with each other in complete privacy? Telegram is not a Russian company? >> prove it or shut up. > Go read the HN commenting policy (specifically around civility) or shut up. Sorry. I was too harsh. I actually regret. Compared to willfully spreading disinformation however it seems pretty minor though? ----- A bit more: I know local police used to use Telegram. That worries me. It is actually even more complicated: If Putin reads my most personal messages I don't care. If NSA or even worse, local police actually took their time to read my messages I'd be mad or worried. However if FSB asked for help they would need a very good reason and I'd try to consult with local law enforcement first. If local police however asked for help I'd go out of my way to help them.

KennyBlanken 5y ago

I obviously was referring to e2ee; everything is point to point encrypted these days. e2ee is turned off by default and cannot be enabled for group chats. I stand by my assertion that Telegram's proprietary secret encryption is nearly guaranteed to be weaker than industry-standard encryption. "Home grown is always weaker" is a well known position of almost the entire crypto community. I further stand by my assertion that Telegram's encryption is nearly guaranteed to be backdoored, because there is literally zero reason for a startup to invest the massive engineering resources needed to successfully develop and maintain its own encryption algorithms, unless they were being paid to do so. The NSA has a long history of backdooring private encryption technology through industry "partnerships." Do you seriously think Putin would allow a domestic company to develop a communication tool that would allow Russians to communicate with each other in complete privacy? > prove it or shut up. Go read the HN commenting policy (specifically around civility) or shut up.

skinkestek 5y ago
> I obviously was referring to e2ee; So you admit you weren't just spreading inaccuracies you heard from someone else but you knew you were posting disinformation. > I further stand by my assertion that Telegram's encryption is nearly guaranteed to be backdoored, because there is literally zero reason for a startup to invest the massive engineering resources needed to successfully develop and maintain its own encryption algorithms, unless they were being paid to do so. This is a good argument. > Do you seriously think Putin would allow a domestic company to develop a communication tool that would allow Russians to communicate with each other in complete privacy? Telegram is not a Russian company? >> prove it or shut up. > Go read the HN commenting policy (specifically around civility) or shut up. Sorry. I was too harsh. I actually regret. Compared to willfully spreading disinformation however it seems pretty minor though? ----- A bit more: I know local police used to use Telegram. That worries me. It is actually even more complicated: If Putin reads my most personal messages I don't care. If NSA or even worse, local police actually took their time to read my messages I'd be mad or worried. However if FSB asked for help they would need a very good reason and I'd try to consult with local law enforcement first. If local police however asked for help I'd go out of my way to help them.