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The emoji comparison thing is mathematically solid. Assuming the clients aren't backdoored (and the Telegram client is open source, so that's not that easy), th

The emoji comparison thing is mathematically solid. Assuming the clients aren't backdoored (and the Telegram client is open source, so that's not that easy), there is no way for an attacker to make both sides show the same emoji. If they want to convince two users that they have en E2EE connection while performing a man in the middle attack, they'd have to fake their voices to each other to change what emoji sequence they each read out. That's hard, and therefore this is real, meaningful privacy.

Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
Telegram can potentially perform mitm at any time and generate matching emoji images for both sides of conversation, since you can't really trust the app code to be the same they put on GitHub. If you've built it yourself, that'd reduce the risk, but nobody does that because blind trust is much more easy.
- to11mtm 5y ago
  This is true, and IMHO somewhere that App-Stores could potentially assist in building trust for OSS Apps being distributed. What I'm envisioning is a 'build hash' that is reproducible based on the public source code with a given set of compiler settings (i.e. same used for publish.) The systems app-management widget could then display this build hash in the app-check menu. This would likely require more care in packaging, as well as some form of secure config API that allows companies to provide certain bits of configuration (i.e. remote servers to contact) without impacting the build output. This would mean that yes, people would still need to audit the code, but at least it's easy for anyone to canary out to the internet that the hashes are mismatching, same for when someone does find something on an audit. OTOH, I'm sure Telegram's competitors in the chat space would love a reason to de-legitimize them, so it wouldn't surprise me if -someone- out there was already doing some sort of compare on published builds.

Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago

Telegram can potentially perform mitm at any time and generate matching emoji images for both sides of conversation, since you can't really trust the app code to be the same they put on GitHub. If you've built it yourself, that'd reduce the risk, but nobody does that because blind trust is much more easy.

to11mtm 5y ago
This is true, and IMHO somewhere that App-Stores could potentially assist in building trust for OSS Apps being distributed. What I'm envisioning is a 'build hash' that is reproducible based on the public source code with a given set of compiler settings (i.e. same used for publish.) The systems app-management widget could then display this build hash in the app-check menu. This would likely require more care in packaging, as well as some form of secure config API that allows companies to provide certain bits of configuration (i.e. remote servers to contact) without impacting the build output. This would mean that yes, people would still need to audit the code, but at least it's easy for anyone to canary out to the internet that the hashes are mismatching, same for when someone does find something on an audit. OTOH, I'm sure Telegram's competitors in the chat space would love a reason to de-legitimize them, so it wouldn't surprise me if -someone- out there was already doing some sort of compare on published builds.