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There's certainly been a recent trend due to people pushing for everyone to use it more, though, which was the parent's point. Btw, not every usage of singular

There's certainly been a recent trend due to people pushing for everyone to use it more, though, which was the parent's point. Btw, not every usage of singular they is equally commonplace. e.g., "When someone says X, they mean Y" is a pretty typical sentence, whereas "My child told me they wanted this toy" is quite jarring in comparison. And then you have sentences like "My boss told me they preferred X" that people try to avoid in order to avoid potential ambiguity.

ptmcc 5y ago
All of those uses have been common in standard American English for decades if not longer. Singular they is nothing new at all.
- dataflow 5y ago
  > Singular they is nothing new at all. As if I claimed it was?
  - emodendroket 5y ago
    That is the implication of calling it a trend.
    - pezezin 5y ago
      Let me clarify what I wanted to say with "recent trend": Singular they to refer to a hypothetical or unspecified person is very normal, any fluent speaker of English, native or not, uses it frequently. But singular they to refer to an specific person is not so common. I have never anybody who speaks like that, and I have met many people in my life. Maybe it has been used for decades in some dialects, but I only started to notice it this year, with all the push for non-gendered, non-binary language and the like. In my book, that's a trend.
      - emodendroket 5y ago
        For usages like "Robert likes to clean their house" I could see this, but in an example like this with "my friend" I don't find it to be particularly modish.
    - dataflow 5y ago
      No. Not only does "trend" not imply "new" (X rising from 10 at t = 0 to 11, 12, 13, 14, ... year-by-year is obviously a trend and clearly doesn't imply X was ever 0??) but I in fact quite explicitly said that the recent trend is "people pushing for everyone to use it more". Notice I did not say "anew", I did not say "for the first time", I said more. You're putting words in my mouth by reading it as "new". In fact the entire point of the comment was to point out that it is not new but that there has been a trend of it becoming more prevalent.
- WalterBright 5y ago
  Common? I've never heard any of them.
  - hoseja 5y ago
    We have always been at war with Eastasia.
  - BoorishBears 5y ago
    You've never heard someone use "they" in reference to a singular person?! Sometimes you don't even know who the person referenced, so how do you refer to them? "I don't know who's in charge but they could learn a thing or two" "Someone is making a bunch of noise and they had better stop it" "My friend told me his coworker was hurt. I hope they're ok" Would you really use he or she instead of they in all of these situations? Like just pull a gender out of a hat?
    - SiempreViernes 5y ago
      Presumably they've only heard the variant "My friend told me his coworker was hurt. I hope he or she is ok". /sarcasm
    - WalterBright 5y ago
      > You've never heard someone use "they" in reference to a singular person?! Not until the last couple years. I often heard "man" or "him" used in a gender neutral manner, and whether it was neutral or not came from the context. "Guy" usually referred to males, but sometimes was gender neutral, again from the context. In the late 70s there was a move to things like "postman => postal worker", "chairman => chairwoman or chairperson", "bowman => archer", "stewardess => flight attendant", etc. But never "they" as singular. Sometimes one saw "his or hers", "he or she", etc., but rarely as it is kinda clunky to use.
deleted 5y ago
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phillc73 5y ago
> "My child told me they wanted this toy" is quite jarring in comparison. Seems perfectly normal to me. I would use this form if not naming my child, usually speaking to people who didn't know me, my child or my personal life very well. However, if the child is named, then "they" would be odd. E.g. "David told me they wanted this toy" versus "David told me he wanted this toy."
- maratc 5y ago
  > I would use this form if not naming my child, usually speaking to people who didn't know me, my child or my personal life very well. There's a potential for ambiguity: we aren't sure "they" is a reference to the child. "Early in the morning some people with toys passed by the house. My child told me they wanted this toy."
  - Liquid_Fire 5y ago
    Same ambiguity exists with he/she. Perfectly unambiguous language is rarely practically achievable. "Early in the morning, a man with toys passed by the house. My child told me he wanted this toy."
BoxOfRain 5y ago
I have the same distaste for moral busybodies that most on HN do, but I tend to use 'they' because the alternative expressions for when gender is unknown or irrelevant such as 's/he' or 'he/she' and similar are in my opinion a lot more jarring in written text. It's not necessarily a politically-motivated choice, I think it's often simply along the lines of 'this is the least awkward construct available to us'.
ryanmercer 5y ago
>There's certainly been a recent trend due to people pushing for everyone to use it more, though, which was the parent's point. I am 36, and have been using it that way my entire life?
torgoguys 5y ago
I'm in my 40s, living in Wisconsin most of the time, and all of those usages of singular they have been in use for as long as I can remember. I find none of them jarring. This from a person who still has a hard time remembering to address a specific person as "they" when they say that's their pronoun (but I'm working on it!).
- dataflow 5y ago
  > all of those usages of singular they have been in use for as long as I can remember. I find none of them jarring. You're saying even in the previous century you frequently heard others refer to their own child as "they"? And you didn't find it jarring one bit?
- torgoguys 5y ago
  >You're saying even in the previous century you frequently heard others refer to their own child as "they"? And you didn't find it jarring one bit? Sorry, too deep to reply directly to your comment which is a sibling of this, but, that is correct. I don't recall a person referring to their own child as "they" as ever being odd if I don't know that person's child and the speaker didn't otherwise gender the child. It would sound slightly odd if that person said "My SON went to the park before they ate lunch" but "My CHILD went to the park before they ate lunch" has always sounded normal as far as I can recall.
  - dataflow 5y ago
    Well that's news to me. Interesting to hear, thanks!

ptmcc 5y ago

All of those uses have been common in standard American English for decades if not longer. Singular they is nothing new at all.

dataflow 5y ago
> Singular they is nothing new at all. As if I claimed it was?
- emodendroket 5y ago
  That is the implication of calling it a trend.
  - pezezin 5y ago
    Let me clarify what I wanted to say with "recent trend": Singular they to refer to a hypothetical or unspecified person is very normal, any fluent speaker of English, native or not, uses it frequently. But singular they to refer to an specific person is not so common. I have never anybody who speaks like that, and I have met many people in my life. Maybe it has been used for decades in some dialects, but I only started to notice it this year, with all the push for non-gendered, non-binary language and the like. In my book, that's a trend.
    - emodendroket 5y ago
      For usages like "Robert likes to clean their house" I could see this, but in an example like this with "my friend" I don't find it to be particularly modish.
  - dataflow 5y ago
    No. Not only does "trend" not imply "new" (X rising from 10 at t = 0 to 11, 12, 13, 14, ... year-by-year is obviously a trend and clearly doesn't imply X was ever 0??) but I in fact quite explicitly said that the recent trend is "people pushing for everyone to use it more". Notice I did not say "anew", I did not say "for the first time", I said more. You're putting words in my mouth by reading it as "new". In fact the entire point of the comment was to point out that it is not new but that there has been a trend of it becoming more prevalent.
WalterBright 5y ago
Common? I've never heard any of them.
- hoseja 5y ago
  We have always been at war with Eastasia.
- BoorishBears 5y ago
  You've never heard someone use "they" in reference to a singular person?! Sometimes you don't even know who the person referenced, so how do you refer to them? "I don't know who's in charge but they could learn a thing or two" "Someone is making a bunch of noise and they had better stop it" "My friend told me his coworker was hurt. I hope they're ok" Would you really use he or she instead of they in all of these situations? Like just pull a gender out of a hat?
  - SiempreViernes 5y ago
    Presumably they've only heard the variant "My friend told me his coworker was hurt. I hope he or she is ok". /sarcasm
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    > You've never heard someone use "they" in reference to a singular person?! Not until the last couple years. I often heard "man" or "him" used in a gender neutral manner, and whether it was neutral or not came from the context. "Guy" usually referred to males, but sometimes was gender neutral, again from the context. In the late 70s there was a move to things like "postman => postal worker", "chairman => chairwoman or chairperson", "bowman => archer", "stewardess => flight attendant", etc. But never "they" as singular. Sometimes one saw "his or hers", "he or she", etc., but rarely as it is kinda clunky to use.

deleted 5y ago

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phillc73 5y ago

> "My child told me they wanted this toy" is quite jarring in comparison. Seems perfectly normal to me. I would use this form if not naming my child, usually speaking to people who didn't know me, my child or my personal life very well. However, if the child is named, then "they" would be odd. E.g. "David told me they wanted this toy" versus "David told me he wanted this toy."

maratc 5y ago
> I would use this form if not naming my child, usually speaking to people who didn't know me, my child or my personal life very well. There's a potential for ambiguity: we aren't sure "they" is a reference to the child. "Early in the morning some people with toys passed by the house. My child told me they wanted this toy."
- Liquid_Fire 5y ago
  Same ambiguity exists with he/she. Perfectly unambiguous language is rarely practically achievable. "Early in the morning, a man with toys passed by the house. My child told me he wanted this toy."

BoxOfRain 5y ago

I have the same distaste for moral busybodies that most on HN do, but I tend to use 'they' because the alternative expressions for when gender is unknown or irrelevant such as 's/he' or 'he/she' and similar are in my opinion a lot more jarring in written text. It's not necessarily a politically-motivated choice, I think it's often simply along the lines of 'this is the least awkward construct available to us'.

ryanmercer 5y ago

>There's certainly been a recent trend due to people pushing for everyone to use it more, though, which was the parent's point. I am 36, and have been using it that way my entire life?

torgoguys 5y ago

I'm in my 40s, living in Wisconsin most of the time, and all of those usages of singular they have been in use for as long as I can remember. I find none of them jarring. This from a person who still has a hard time remembering to address a specific person as "they" when they say that's their pronoun (but I'm working on it!).

dataflow 5y ago
> all of those usages of singular they have been in use for as long as I can remember. I find none of them jarring. You're saying even in the previous century you frequently heard others refer to their own child as "they"? And you didn't find it jarring one bit?
torgoguys 5y ago
>You're saying even in the previous century you frequently heard others refer to their own child as "they"? And you didn't find it jarring one bit? Sorry, too deep to reply directly to your comment which is a sibling of this, but, that is correct. I don't recall a person referring to their own child as "they" as ever being odd if I don't know that person's child and the speaker didn't otherwise gender the child. It would sound slightly odd if that person said "My SON went to the park before they ate lunch" but "My CHILD went to the park before they ate lunch" has always sounded normal as far as I can recall.
- dataflow 5y ago
  Well that's news to me. Interesting to hear, thanks!