6 ms·

Private prisons. Profit from misery. Just shows that some very big crooks are within the law

by worik 5y ago

darkwizard42 5y ago
I think some pretty valid explanations have been shared with sources on the way contraband can be transported via the books. Not saying we can't use alternative solutions, but your comment doesn't really support further discussion.
- msbarnett 5y ago
  > Not saying we can't use alternative solutions, but your comment doesn't really support further discussion Sure it does. We can only discuss solutions if we’re willing to accurately describe ALL of the causes of the problem. The article we’re discussing is entirely about how the “contraband” claim appears to be a flimsy excuse that both doesn’t impact the primary source of contraband (the guards), and obviously has nothing whatsoever to do with issues like: > With e-books, the situation is even worse, as companies like Global Tel Link supply supposedly “free” tablets which actually charge their users by the minute to read. Even public-domain classics, available on Project Gutenberg, are only available at a price under these systems—and prisons, in turn, receive a 5% commission on every charge. “Books can smuggle contraband” has no explanatory power wrt marked up access to free ebooks. Profit motive does. It’s you, rather than the person you’re responding to, who seems to be shutting down discussion of solutions by trying to rule discussion of private for-profit prisons making profit-optimal decisions that may be net-worse for society somehow out-of-bounds.
wombatpm 5y ago
Seems like misaligned incentives. Perhaps the prisons should be charged a fee for each case of recidivism
throwaway0a5e 5y ago
So it's ok when the state does it? The state(s) is just as complicit in all this crap as the private prisons are.
- mbg721 5y ago
  Few prisons are actually private; it just feels better misdirecting the problem.
ALittleLight 5y ago
I've always thought the problem with private prisons is that incentives are misaligned. Because the prison companies get paid by the prisoner their incentive is to get more prisoners. Recidivism is like repeat business for them. If we realigned incentives I think private prisons would make much more sense. For example, what if private prisons were paid a portion of the tax revenue their released prisoners produced? e.g. Inmate X is released, stays out of prison, gets a good job and the private prison he graduated from gets an annual payment of, say, half X's tax revenue so long as he stays out of trouble. In this model private prisons would be places that focused on getting prisoners to rehabilitate, learn in demand skills, get good jobs, and stay out of prisons in the future. Investors stack the prisons with the staff and resources to produce big profits in the future. Provided recidivism does decrease governments will likely make a profit on it. Prisoners will get better lives out of the deal. Seems like there is potential for wins all around.
- savingsPossible 5y ago
  > what if private prisons were paid a portion of the tax revenue their released prisoners produced? That is a wonderful idea! However... what is the typical tax amount a, say, mc donald's cachier is expected to pay? The number might be just to low... https://bizfluent.com/info-7890463-tax-rates-minimum-wage.html https://bizfluent.com/info-7890463-tax-rates-minimum-wage.ht... (apparently, around 2000 US per year...) also, an inmate seems to cost around 33k a year to keep imprisoned
  - ALittleLight 5y ago
    Could be a "whichever is greater" where one choice is the difference between what the government would expect to pay per year for a former convict all up and what they do pay for a particular convict, and the other choice is the tax revenue share.
  - SturgeonsLaw 5y ago
    This gives the prison operators an incentive to train the incarcerated for higher paying jobs
- 5y ago
Wohlf 5y ago
Private prisons are terrible but they're a tiny minority. Governments run the vast majority of prisons and also are responsible for outsourcing to private prisons.

Private prisons. Profit from misery. Just shows that some very big crooks are within the law

by worik 5y ago

Private prisons. Profit from misery. Just shows that some very big crooks are within the law

I think some pretty valid explanations have been shared with sources on the way contraband can be transported via the books. Not saying we can't use alternative solutions, but your comment doesn't really support further discussion.

msbarnett 5y ago
> Not saying we can't use alternative solutions, but your comment doesn't really support further discussion Sure it does. We can only discuss solutions if we’re willing to accurately describe ALL of the causes of the problem. The article we’re discussing is entirely about how the “contraband” claim appears to be a flimsy excuse that both doesn’t impact the primary source of contraband (the guards), and obviously has nothing whatsoever to do with issues like: > With e-books, the situation is even worse, as companies like Global Tel Link supply supposedly “free” tablets which actually charge their users by the minute to read. Even public-domain classics, available on Project Gutenberg, are only available at a price under these systems—and prisons, in turn, receive a 5% commission on every charge. “Books can smuggle contraband” has no explanatory power wrt marked up access to free ebooks. Profit motive does. It’s you, rather than the person you’re responding to, who seems to be shutting down discussion of solutions by trying to rule discussion of private for-profit prisons making profit-optimal decisions that may be net-worse for society somehow out-of-bounds.

wombatpm 5y ago

Seems like misaligned incentives. Perhaps the prisons should be charged a fee for each case of recidivism

throwaway0a5e 5y ago

So it's ok when the state does it? The state(s) is just as complicit in all this crap as the private prisons are.

mbg721 5y ago
Few prisons are actually private; it just feels better misdirecting the problem.

ALittleLight 5y ago

I've always thought the problem with private prisons is that incentives are misaligned. Because the prison companies get paid by the prisoner their incentive is to get more prisoners. Recidivism is like repeat business for them. If we realigned incentives I think private prisons would make much more sense. For example, what if private prisons were paid a portion of the tax revenue their released prisoners produced? e.g. Inmate X is released, stays out of prison, gets a good job and the private prison he graduated from gets an annual payment of, say, half X's tax revenue so long as he stays out of trouble. In this model private prisons would be places that focused on getting prisoners to rehabilitate, learn in demand skills, get good jobs, and stay out of prisons in the future. Investors stack the prisons with the staff and resources to produce big profits in the future. Provided recidivism does decrease governments will likely make a profit on it. Prisoners will get better lives out of the deal. Seems like there is potential for wins all around.

savingsPossible 5y ago
> what if private prisons were paid a portion of the tax revenue their released prisoners produced? That is a wonderful idea! However... what is the typical tax amount a, say, mc donald's cachier is expected to pay? The number might be just to low... https://bizfluent.com/info-7890463-tax-rates-minimum-wage.html https://bizfluent.com/info-7890463-tax-rates-minimum-wage.ht... (apparently, around 2000 US per year...) also, an inmate seems to cost around 33k a year to keep imprisoned
- ALittleLight 5y ago
  Could be a "whichever is greater" where one choice is the difference between what the government would expect to pay per year for a former convict all up and what they do pay for a particular convict, and the other choice is the tax revenue share.
- SturgeonsLaw 5y ago
  This gives the prison operators an incentive to train the incarcerated for higher paying jobs
5y ago

Wohlf 5y ago

Private prisons are terrible but they're a tiny minority. Governments run the vast majority of prisons and also are responsible for outsourcing to private prisons.