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Thanks for the helpful response. It sounds like Keygen considers a "subscription" and a "license' to be a 1-to-1 relationship, correct? Most billing/subscripti

by Mertax 5y ago

Thanks for the helpful response. It sounds like Keygen considers a "subscription" and a "license' to be a 1-to-1 relationship, correct? Most billing/subscription managers I've looked into support the concept of a subscription that supports multiple seats/licenses. To model this in Keygen, the subscription would map to the license and the number of allowed licenses on the subscription would map to the "machines" allowed to use the license, correct? License == Subscription. Machine == Licensed User ID? While this could work as a quick go-to-market solution I think ideally it would be a many-to-1 relationship between the license (seat) and the subscription. We also want to support the "machine" concept too where we wouldn't want an individual user license to be abused by being concurrently used on multiple devices beyond what an individual user account should be doing (i.e. allow X signed in devices per user). > You can hide the license from your customer by storing the license identifiers in your CIAM's user metadata, and then hitting Keygen's API after the user has authenticated and you're able to read those metadata values. E.g. storing the license ID, key and the license's API token is typical. Curious about the distinction between these attributes. Maybe you can educate me: what's the difference between the license ID and license key? And does the API token restrict client access to just that licenses' information? We definitely would be validating licenses from a client/mobile app and not having app level API keys in the mobile client is certainly desirable. > Being able to offer a customer-facing portal is one of my priorities in 2022, so I will eventually offer this out-of-the-box. I can see this as being a tall order to get right in the general market sense. Which I'm sure is why few (none?) out-of-box solutions exist. Being able to white label this product will be important. Also supporting the CIAM of your customer so they can be the identity provider/authentication source for their own customers so separate sign in to manage separate accounts/services isn't necessary. Allowing management/license assignment of multiple products with multiple subscriptions etc.. Allowing designation of admin like roles/permissions within the same CIAM directory of your customer securely -- I can see how this can all get hairy real fast. But if you can get it right I can see a market for this.

ezekg 5y ago
> It sounds like Keygen considers a "subscription" and a "license' to be a 1-to-1 relationship, correct? Keygen is actually pretty agnostic when it comes to billing -- if you want to have a one-to-many relationship with a subscription and licenses, you can definitely do that. Keygen doesn’t have a concept of a “subscription”, so third-party records, such as a subscription object in Stripe, can be associated with each other using metadata-based foreign keys for easy lookup on each side. In the case of multiple licenses -- you can have each license be a “seat” (or named license) and then manage each ones machines separately, like you mentioned, to assert an upper bound on multiple devices per-seat. > Curious about the distinction between these attributes. Maybe you can educate me: what's the difference between the license ID and license key? The license ID is a UUID that uniquely identifies it within Keygen’s system. A license key is a value that is more typical of a license, one that can be randomly generated by us upon license creation, or you can also supply a custom value. The license’s key is what most end-users will use, for validations. The ID is used for other requests, such as associating a machine activation to a given license ID. tldr; different identifiers for different use cases. But in your case, since the end-user wouldn’t be inputting the key themselves, the license’s key is largely irrelevant since you’ll be dealing with the license IDs. (Though the key could be used to assert uniqueness, e.g. setting the key to a named user’s email address hash.) > And does the API token restrict client access to just that licenses' information? We definitely would be validating licenses from a client/mobile app and not having app level API keys in the mobile client is certainly desirable. There are different types of API tokens that carry different privileges. But in general, most API requests will require some from of authentication token so that Keygen can assert the token has privileges to perform the request. This can largely be hidden away, and dynamic per-license, so you shouldn’t need to worry about embedding any tokens into your actual application. Happy to chat more via email, zeke@ -- HN may not be the best place for long form threads like this. :)

by Mertax 5y ago

ezekg 5y ago

> It sounds like Keygen considers a "subscription" and a "license' to be a 1-to-1 relationship, correct? Keygen is actually pretty agnostic when it comes to billing -- if you want to have a one-to-many relationship with a subscription and licenses, you can definitely do that. Keygen doesn’t have a concept of a “subscription”, so third-party records, such as a subscription object in Stripe, can be associated with each other using metadata-based foreign keys for easy lookup on each side. In the case of multiple licenses -- you can have each license be a “seat” (or named license) and then manage each ones machines separately, like you mentioned, to assert an upper bound on multiple devices per-seat. > Curious about the distinction between these attributes. Maybe you can educate me: what's the difference between the license ID and license key? The license ID is a UUID that uniquely identifies it within Keygen’s system. A license key is a value that is more typical of a license, one that can be randomly generated by us upon license creation, or you can also supply a custom value. The license’s key is what most end-users will use, for validations. The ID is used for other requests, such as associating a machine activation to a given license ID. tldr; different identifiers for different use cases. But in your case, since the end-user wouldn’t be inputting the key themselves, the license’s key is largely irrelevant since you’ll be dealing with the license IDs. (Though the key could be used to assert uniqueness, e.g. setting the key to a named user’s email address hash.) > And does the API token restrict client access to just that licenses' information? We definitely would be validating licenses from a client/mobile app and not having app level API keys in the mobile client is certainly desirable. There are different types of API tokens that carry different privileges. But in general, most API requests will require some from of authentication token so that Keygen can assert the token has privileges to perform the request. This can largely be hidden away, and dynamic per-license, so you shouldn’t need to worry about embedding any tokens into your actual application. Happy to chat more via email, zeke@ -- HN may not be the best place for long form threads like this. :)