5 ms·

Well firstly it's not actually true, what we teach children, in that words absolutely can hurt. And it's not really hard to be respectful: >"That's a stupid i

Well firstly it's not actually true, what we teach children, in that words absolutely can hurt. And it's not really hard to be respectful: >"That's a stupid idea" versus >"That idea simply will never work" identical information transfer, same amount of time taken, simply subtracting the implicit disrespect. As someone who works in academia (physics no less), IMO the problem is that some people are complete fucking arseholes because for some reason being a complete fucking arsehole in academia is accepted, and the problem is not that some people are sensitive. It's actually not hard to be nice. It's mostly just stuff you learned as a child. I don't accept that being a bit of a cunt makes you a better physicist or makes a team more productive. Having said that working in academia has certainly thickened my skin. I've worked with some legendarily awful wankers in my short time. I don't get phased any more, but that's not necessarily a good thing.

scotty79 5y ago
I don't know. "That idea simply will never work." will hurt the fragole person just as efficiently as "This idea is stupid". I think better communication us skip your general assesment of validity and form the objections you have to the idea as your questions about the idea. Or just say "it's stupid" if you are in a hurry and don't care about offending the person but don't expect great interactions in the future.
- bettysdiagnose 5y ago
  It hurt the fragile person, yes, but let's think of the average person. Calling someone's idea stupid will reasonably insult the average person and make them think you're a cock, unless you know them well enough (in which case all bets are off). I am by no means advocating catering to the lowest common denominator, I'm simply opposed to throwing out all social conventions that have basically been with us for as long as verbal communication has existed because it's "efficient" (no proof either that it's actually efficient). At that rate the OP is simply asking us to stop being humans. It's just nonsense.
  - WesolyKubeczek 5y ago
    > It's just nonsense. Ah, I see what you did there. How different is this from “it’s stupid”? Or is there an approved list of ideas one may call nonsense, stupid, or braindead?
    - bettysdiagnose 5y ago
      Well, if I were to come across someone IRL who argued that we didn't need to be nice to people and observe basic mores that have most likely existed for at least as long as humans have existed, I'd call it nonsense there too, but that's never happened. There's something about the internet that brings out the ridiculously hot takes. It's orders of magnitude more nonsensical (and harmful) than any single bad idea I've ever come across in my time in academia.
Jensson 5y ago
> >"That's a stupid idea" > versus > >"That idea simply will never work" The second seems much much worse than the first to me. Why would you say that an idea will simply never work? Maybe it will and you made a mistake? Makes you sound like an ass. With the first you make it clear that the idea is dumb, but you aren't saying that the idea will never work, so maybe it still will work? It gives the signal that maybe you should think it through again, but doesn't completely dismiss the value of your work like the second.
- bettysdiagnose 5y ago
  Well if the idea is genuinely stupid then it will never work? I am operating on the assumption that someone has actually said something stupid. That's the given. If they've said something clever then obviously all bets are off and this is just a pointless discussion. And if you're not sure if it's stupid or will work, why would you say either of those things? You're arguing for an edge case based on a condition that should never even arise in the first place. Also, we're not talking about work, we're talking about ideas.
  - Jensson 5y ago
    > Well if the idea is genuinely stupid then it will never work? I am operating on the assumption that someone has actually said something stupid. Stupid things still works from time to time. Why are you so dismissive here? Can't you try to be a bit more understanding of people and ideas and your own ability to sometimes fail to recognize potential things? Sometimes you are stupid in the moment like that. Sometimes the whole world is stupid and failed to recognize a great idea.
    - bettysdiagnose 5y ago
      Well in fairness if there was any slight hint of ambiguity as you suggest then I simply wouldn't call their idea stupid or suggest it could never work. I would just ask them more questions. I think that's a good way to operate. It's worked well for me. I just think it's disrespectful and rude to call someone or their idea stupid. Most would agree. Operate outside of basic social mores at your own risk I suppose. As I say, people in physics disproportionately have terrible social skills so you can just really learn into your job title, if that's what you're into. The rest of us in the field who prefer to observe the sort of very very basic things our parents taught us when we were children will just roll our eyes.

scotty79 5y ago

I don't know. "That idea simply will never work." will hurt the fragole person just as efficiently as "This idea is stupid". I think better communication us skip your general assesment of validity and form the objections you have to the idea as your questions about the idea. Or just say "it's stupid" if you are in a hurry and don't care about offending the person but don't expect great interactions in the future.

bettysdiagnose 5y ago
It hurt the fragile person, yes, but let's think of the average person. Calling someone's idea stupid will reasonably insult the average person and make them think you're a cock, unless you know them well enough (in which case all bets are off). I am by no means advocating catering to the lowest common denominator, I'm simply opposed to throwing out all social conventions that have basically been with us for as long as verbal communication has existed because it's "efficient" (no proof either that it's actually efficient). At that rate the OP is simply asking us to stop being humans. It's just nonsense.
- WesolyKubeczek 5y ago
  > It's just nonsense. Ah, I see what you did there. How different is this from “it’s stupid”? Or is there an approved list of ideas one may call nonsense, stupid, or braindead?
  - bettysdiagnose 5y ago
    Well, if I were to come across someone IRL who argued that we didn't need to be nice to people and observe basic mores that have most likely existed for at least as long as humans have existed, I'd call it nonsense there too, but that's never happened. There's something about the internet that brings out the ridiculously hot takes. It's orders of magnitude more nonsensical (and harmful) than any single bad idea I've ever come across in my time in academia.

Jensson 5y ago

> >"That's a stupid idea" > versus > >"That idea simply will never work" The second seems much much worse than the first to me. Why would you say that an idea will simply never work? Maybe it will and you made a mistake? Makes you sound like an ass. With the first you make it clear that the idea is dumb, but you aren't saying that the idea will never work, so maybe it still will work? It gives the signal that maybe you should think it through again, but doesn't completely dismiss the value of your work like the second.

bettysdiagnose 5y ago
Well if the idea is genuinely stupid then it will never work? I am operating on the assumption that someone has actually said something stupid. That's the given. If they've said something clever then obviously all bets are off and this is just a pointless discussion. And if you're not sure if it's stupid or will work, why would you say either of those things? You're arguing for an edge case based on a condition that should never even arise in the first place. Also, we're not talking about work, we're talking about ideas.
- Jensson 5y ago
  > Well if the idea is genuinely stupid then it will never work? I am operating on the assumption that someone has actually said something stupid. Stupid things still works from time to time. Why are you so dismissive here? Can't you try to be a bit more understanding of people and ideas and your own ability to sometimes fail to recognize potential things? Sometimes you are stupid in the moment like that. Sometimes the whole world is stupid and failed to recognize a great idea.
  - bettysdiagnose 5y ago
    Well in fairness if there was any slight hint of ambiguity as you suggest then I simply wouldn't call their idea stupid or suggest it could never work. I would just ask them more questions. I think that's a good way to operate. It's worked well for me. I just think it's disrespectful and rude to call someone or their idea stupid. Most would agree. Operate outside of basic social mores at your own risk I suppose. As I say, people in physics disproportionately have terrible social skills so you can just really learn into your job title, if that's what you're into. The rest of us in the field who prefer to observe the sort of very very basic things our parents taught us when we were children will just roll our eyes.