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What exactly do you mean by "phone-shaped devices"? People can and do use the Librem and the original PinePhone as a primary phone. Calling, SMS, mobile data, a

What exactly do you mean by "phone-shaped devices"? People can and do use the Librem and the original PinePhone as a primary phone. Calling, SMS, mobile data, and even MMS work at this point (however, MMS support is very recent). The original PinePhone's hardware is slow, but users of the lightweight SXMO UI report getting good responsiveness. The maker of Librem has software developers on their payroll, and their price reflects that - unlike with cheaper Android devices, you're subsidizing the development of userspace software when you buy a Librem. And you're subsidizing kernel-level development that's done "the right way" (mainlining), as opposed to the cheapest-viable-kernel-with-no-updates approach that most Android devices take. At $450, the PinePhone Pro with Pine64's keyboard attachment has roughly comparable hardware specs to the Gemini that you link to in the original post. The Gemini sells for $680. The state of hardware support in regard to the OnePlus is exciting - nothing wrong with going that route if you want more bang for your buck on hardware specs. Personally, I've opted for the PinePhone Pro because I don't need state-of-the-art hardware, and I value the community and the option of using FOSS firmware on its cell modem.

GhettoComputers 5y ago
They’re not usually being used as daily phones with an SBC being shaped into a phone. The Gemini is never that price, it’s always on “sale”. Do you use them PPP daily? All new android phones are mainlined, it’s been years, even before either phone existed. Let’s look at the subreddits for real user experience, who is using it daily? Where are the good experiences? Everyone is selling their L5 or getting a refund, and saying stuff like this; > You will not get a full day of charge out of one battery, but you can take spare batteries to swap out. I'm not sure if there's a direct way of running Signal, but it looks like you can bridge it to Matrix using mautrix-signal. I have a similar setup to use WhatsApp (with the Android app running in a VM on a VPS). >Everything else you listed works, but it may be a bit rough around the edges. I've been daily-driving my PinePhone (running Mobian) since May, so it's certainly possible, but don't expect the experience to be anywhere close to a modern Android or iPhone. > Don't. This is beta level hardware with an alpha level OS and Software. If you're looking for functionality, you're in the wrong place. Check back in a couple years. So you can daily drive a battery killing device if you want a bad experience if you want to use apps you rely on VMs, Anbox which doesn’t work, swapping batteries, and yes it technically works if you don’t value modern benefits like a good keyboard, browser, it’s not a standalone functional device like a Linux desktop. https://old.reddit.com/r/Librem5 https://old.reddit.com/r/Librem5 https://reddit.com/r/PinePhoneOfficial/comments/qknefi/thinking_of_getting_a_pinephone_for_daily_driver/ https://reddit.com/r/PinePhoneOfficial/comments/qknefi/think...
- coffeecat 5y ago
  > All new android phones are mainlined, it’s been years, even before either phone existed. Can you cite some sources for this? I believe, for example, that Qualcomm Snapdragon SoCs have a degree of Linux support which literally allows you to boot up a mainline kernel on most of their boards. But to the best of my knowledge, only a handful of devices have anywhere close to full support for sensors, cell modem, wifi/bluetooth, buttons, suspend, etc. In general, obtaining support for these missing hardware features requires someone to carry out unpaid reverse engineering work. Even the PinePhone, which was specifically designed around the goal of being easy to mainline, required quite a bit of reverse engineering work from the community, and isn't yet fully mainlined. > Do you use them PPP daily? I don't; as far as I'm aware, the dev units haven't even shipped yet. Its device drivers are still a work in progress, and that will probably be the case for the next month or two. But I've pre-ordered one, and I plan to use it as my only phone starting early next year. (To be clear: I'm a very abnormal phone user. I never owned a cell phone until a few years ago; I now own an iPhone, which I literally use for nothing except texting and calling.) > Everyone is selling their L5 or getting a refund Much of the Librem 5 criticism is totally justified; they over-promised and under-delivered. They accepted payments on orders that they weren't able to ship, and they promised an unrealistically polished product which they weren't able to produce. On the other hand, Pine64 has been unambiguous in their messaging: the PinePhone is a phone for hackers, not for average consumers. Some people ignore the messaging, buy it with unrealistic expectations, and then complain about it on the internet; but that's life. If you need Android apps, if battery life is a high priority for you, or if you want iOS-tier polish, then Linux smartphones are the wrong choice for you. It's the right choice if you value software freedom, enjoy hacking, don't mind getting your hands dirty, and don't need Android apps or multi-day battery life.
  - GhettoComputers 5y ago
    https://www.computerworld.com/article/3306443/what-is-project-treble-android-upgrade-fix-explained.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/3306443/what-is-projec... https://www.xda-developers.com/android-project-mainline-modules-explanation/ https://www.xda-developers.com/android-project-mainline-modu... > It's the right choice if you value software freedom, enjoy hacking, don't mind getting your hands dirty, and don't need Android apps or multi-day battery life. All this can be done in android. It runs real Linux, Android like OPO 6T is older released hardware with much much better specs.

GhettoComputers 5y ago

They’re not usually being used as daily phones with an SBC being shaped into a phone. The Gemini is never that price, it’s always on “sale”. Do you use them PPP daily? All new android phones are mainlined, it’s been years, even before either phone existed. Let’s look at the subreddits for real user experience, who is using it daily? Where are the good experiences? Everyone is selling their L5 or getting a refund, and saying stuff like this; > You will not get a full day of charge out of one battery, but you can take spare batteries to swap out. I'm not sure if there's a direct way of running Signal, but it looks like you can bridge it to Matrix using mautrix-signal. I have a similar setup to use WhatsApp (with the Android app running in a VM on a VPS). >Everything else you listed works, but it may be a bit rough around the edges. I've been daily-driving my PinePhone (running Mobian) since May, so it's certainly possible, but don't expect the experience to be anywhere close to a modern Android or iPhone. > Don't. This is beta level hardware with an alpha level OS and Software. If you're looking for functionality, you're in the wrong place. Check back in a couple years. So you can daily drive a battery killing device if you want a bad experience if you want to use apps you rely on VMs, Anbox which doesn’t work, swapping batteries, and yes it technically works if you don’t value modern benefits like a good keyboard, browser, it’s not a standalone functional device like a Linux desktop. https://old.reddit.com/r/Librem5 https://old.reddit.com/r/Librem5 https://reddit.com/r/PinePhoneOfficial/comments/qknefi/thinking_of_getting_a_pinephone_for_daily_driver/ https://reddit.com/r/PinePhoneOfficial/comments/qknefi/think...

coffeecat 5y ago
> All new android phones are mainlined, it’s been years, even before either phone existed. Can you cite some sources for this? I believe, for example, that Qualcomm Snapdragon SoCs have a degree of Linux support which literally allows you to boot up a mainline kernel on most of their boards. But to the best of my knowledge, only a handful of devices have anywhere close to full support for sensors, cell modem, wifi/bluetooth, buttons, suspend, etc. In general, obtaining support for these missing hardware features requires someone to carry out unpaid reverse engineering work. Even the PinePhone, which was specifically designed around the goal of being easy to mainline, required quite a bit of reverse engineering work from the community, and isn't yet fully mainlined. > Do you use them PPP daily? I don't; as far as I'm aware, the dev units haven't even shipped yet. Its device drivers are still a work in progress, and that will probably be the case for the next month or two. But I've pre-ordered one, and I plan to use it as my only phone starting early next year. (To be clear: I'm a very abnormal phone user. I never owned a cell phone until a few years ago; I now own an iPhone, which I literally use for nothing except texting and calling.) > Everyone is selling their L5 or getting a refund Much of the Librem 5 criticism is totally justified; they over-promised and under-delivered. They accepted payments on orders that they weren't able to ship, and they promised an unrealistically polished product which they weren't able to produce. On the other hand, Pine64 has been unambiguous in their messaging: the PinePhone is a phone for hackers, not for average consumers. Some people ignore the messaging, buy it with unrealistic expectations, and then complain about it on the internet; but that's life. If you need Android apps, if battery life is a high priority for you, or if you want iOS-tier polish, then Linux smartphones are the wrong choice for you. It's the right choice if you value software freedom, enjoy hacking, don't mind getting your hands dirty, and don't need Android apps or multi-day battery life.
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  https://www.computerworld.com/article/3306443/what-is-project-treble-android-upgrade-fix-explained.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/3306443/what-is-projec... https://www.xda-developers.com/android-project-mainline-modules-explanation/ https://www.xda-developers.com/android-project-mainline-modu... > It's the right choice if you value software freedom, enjoy hacking, don't mind getting your hands dirty, and don't need Android apps or multi-day battery life. All this can be done in android. It runs real Linux, Android like OPO 6T is older released hardware with much much better specs.