4 ms·

Having been in three different unions for low-payed, unskilled labor like being a warehouse picker is, I can tell you that the union was never on my side for an

Having been in three different unions for low-payed, unskilled labor like being a warehouse picker is, I can tell you that the union was never on my side for anything and mostly served to help management pay everyone the minimum rather than based on performance. And yes, the union reps got the best positions, the best hours and two salaries. The next best positions and best hours went to their friends. The unions only stepped in for the most egregious cases but not in the way you might think: When Buffalo NY's Tops International Market fired their baker for literally urinating in the cake batter used to make the store cakes, the union stepped in to defend the employee because as part of the union contract employees were not supposed to be on camera to perform their duties. They fought hard to get their baker reinstated and won. Outside of federal employment and outside of hollywood, where the strongest unions are anyway, the history of union activity in the US is quite unremarkable. It is most frequently anti-consumer and often works against the long term interests of the workers that it's supposed to represent. Literally 99% of the time I hear somebody shouting support of unions here, they've either never been in one or they've always been the reps. Voices like mine, of those who've been in unions and got the shit end of the stick, get shouted down. I would rather die than participate in a labor union again, for as long as I live.

andrew_ 5y ago
I had a similar experience in IBEW Local 58 before I left the trade to pursue a career in tech. I'm not sure why the negative experiences of those who've seen the dark side of union orgs, aren't welcome.
- boomboomsubban 5y ago
  They tend to be "I was overqualified for my temp hustle and they didn't specifically cater to my needs." Yet they still picked union jobs, likely as it provided them better conditions than the alternatives.
  - busterarm 5y ago
    > they didn't specifically cater to my needs That's the issue though. The inability to be treated as an individual. Time is the most precious commodity in life that we have -- the only thing that we can't get back. Nobody values your time as much as you will. I don't know about you, but being able to negotiate my own exchange of time/labor allows me to conserve as much of that resource as I can. I can negotiate for myself to the fullest. I have the option to walk away and negotiate elsewhere -- in most unionized positions in the US that is simply not possible. Nobody negotiating for you is going to put the same value on your time that you do. It's not fair-trade.
- wolverine876 5y ago
  How are they not welcome? Did someone say, 'don't post those comments here!'? If questions and disagreement make your comment 'not welcome', you are indeed in the wrong forum, but not for the reasons you think. ;)
  - busterarm 5y ago
    Try posting your story and watch the roller coaster your Karma goes through, including people who get so incensed at what you said that they start hate-downvoting multiple pages of your comment history.
    - wolverine876 5y ago
      > downvoting multiple pages of your comment history I've experienced that. Maybe mods could limit each user's downvotes of each other user, especially across different discussions. Some ideas: * Amy could downvote Bob's posts in discussion D1 an unlimited number of times, but only downvote Bob's posts in other discussions N times per hour. * In any case, Amy cannot downvote Bob more than N times per minute. * Nobody can downvote on another user's comment page (e.g., https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=wolverine876 https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=wolverine876 ); they must open the discussion page for each comment. Upvotes would be still possible.
kfoley 5y ago
> When Buffalo NY's Tops International Market fired their baker for literally urinating in the cake batter used to make the store cakes, the union stepped in to defend the employee because as part of the union contract employees were not supposed to be on camera to perform their duties. They fought hard to get their baker reinstated and won. Do you have a source for this? It's a rather serious claim to make without any evidence and I haven't been able to find anything other than your comment when searching.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  > It's a rather serious claim to make without any evidence and I haven't been able to find anything other than your comment when searching. It's also the kind of thing that every party involved would try very hard to keep on the down low. I can definitely see it not making the news since there's probably only about half a dozen people party to it and nobody is a celebrity or otherwise public personality.
  - Symbiote 5y ago
    Then how does this person know about it? Without evidence, assume it's invented anti-union bullshit.
    - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
      Because it's the kind of thing that makes it around the workplace. Nobody's gonna leak that to the news because "trashy line cook does something trashy" isn't really a story worth getting a new job over. You just joke about it with your coworkers friends and move on.
    - busterarm 5y ago
      > Then how does this person know about it? I was there when it happened.
- busterarm 5y ago
  This happened in 2004 or 2005. My memory isn't good enough to land on the exact year.
gentleman11 5y ago
Most of the unions my friends have been a part of looked out for people and protected their jobs whenever there was a personality dispute

andrew_ 5y ago

I had a similar experience in IBEW Local 58 before I left the trade to pursue a career in tech. I'm not sure why the negative experiences of those who've seen the dark side of union orgs, aren't welcome.

boomboomsubban 5y ago
They tend to be "I was overqualified for my temp hustle and they didn't specifically cater to my needs." Yet they still picked union jobs, likely as it provided them better conditions than the alternatives.
- busterarm 5y ago
  > they didn't specifically cater to my needs That's the issue though. The inability to be treated as an individual. Time is the most precious commodity in life that we have -- the only thing that we can't get back. Nobody values your time as much as you will. I don't know about you, but being able to negotiate my own exchange of time/labor allows me to conserve as much of that resource as I can. I can negotiate for myself to the fullest. I have the option to walk away and negotiate elsewhere -- in most unionized positions in the US that is simply not possible. Nobody negotiating for you is going to put the same value on your time that you do. It's not fair-trade.
wolverine876 5y ago
How are they not welcome? Did someone say, 'don't post those comments here!'? If questions and disagreement make your comment 'not welcome', you are indeed in the wrong forum, but not for the reasons you think. ;)
- busterarm 5y ago
  Try posting your story and watch the roller coaster your Karma goes through, including people who get so incensed at what you said that they start hate-downvoting multiple pages of your comment history.
  - wolverine876 5y ago
    > downvoting multiple pages of your comment history I've experienced that. Maybe mods could limit each user's downvotes of each other user, especially across different discussions. Some ideas: * Amy could downvote Bob's posts in discussion D1 an unlimited number of times, but only downvote Bob's posts in other discussions N times per hour. * In any case, Amy cannot downvote Bob more than N times per minute. * Nobody can downvote on another user's comment page (e.g., https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=wolverine876 https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=wolverine876 ); they must open the discussion page for each comment. Upvotes would be still possible.

kfoley 5y ago

> When Buffalo NY's Tops International Market fired their baker for literally urinating in the cake batter used to make the store cakes, the union stepped in to defend the employee because as part of the union contract employees were not supposed to be on camera to perform their duties. They fought hard to get their baker reinstated and won. Do you have a source for this? It's a rather serious claim to make without any evidence and I haven't been able to find anything other than your comment when searching.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
> It's a rather serious claim to make without any evidence and I haven't been able to find anything other than your comment when searching. It's also the kind of thing that every party involved would try very hard to keep on the down low. I can definitely see it not making the news since there's probably only about half a dozen people party to it and nobody is a celebrity or otherwise public personality.
- Symbiote 5y ago
  Then how does this person know about it? Without evidence, assume it's invented anti-union bullshit.
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    Because it's the kind of thing that makes it around the workplace. Nobody's gonna leak that to the news because "trashy line cook does something trashy" isn't really a story worth getting a new job over. You just joke about it with your coworkers friends and move on.
  - busterarm 5y ago
    > Then how does this person know about it? I was there when it happened.
busterarm 5y ago
This happened in 2004 or 2005. My memory isn't good enough to land on the exact year.

gentleman11 5y ago

Most of the unions my friends have been a part of looked out for people and protected their jobs whenever there was a personality dispute