6 ms·

the point of the union is better outcomes for the workers, not for the customers

by scotu 5y ago

busterarm 5y ago
collective bargaining certainly isn't better than compensation and terms that I have been able to negotiate.
- scotu 5y ago
  what a boring argument. Also wrong. I would put a lot of money on "you didn't a/b test collective bargaining with your own negotiation" because it's simply impossible, so you don't really know if that's true. Also most workers are not in a job with a candidate shortage (and candidate shortages don't last forever, better have a union while you have the power to make it happen then when you become a throwaway widget for your company)
  - busterarm 5y ago
    I've negotiated salaries that are 2 or 3 times what my peers have made in the same position. I've also negotiated in non-standard vacation packages, like a fixed 2 months off every year. That simply doesn't happen in collective bargaining. I've hardly ever been a throwaway widget in any job and even when I was working shitty jobs I was the type to get promoted quickly. The only places this never happened were my 3 union jobs. And in each case I was forced to work for the union -- I wasn't seeking it.
    - scotu 5y ago
      yeah, collective bargaining never does any good /s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_bargaining https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_bargaining Last week tonight on union busting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk8dUXRpoy8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk8dUXRpoy8 When a union does not work or is corrupt, we fix the union, we don't give away the collective power to the opposing side of the negotiation: oh no, my lawyer is not doing my best interest he's only trying to rake up the fees! you know what? I'll let my opponent's lawyer represent me in court instead!
- ausbah 5y ago
  only because tech is one of the few industries where demand is greater than supply
thereisnospork 5y ago
And that there is a problem: Even if you are in a union, you are undoubtedly the customer of many unions or would-be unions. edit: clarification 'a' refers to a singular union and isn't a comment on the quality/nature of said union(s).
- scotu 5y ago
  ok, so what is the problem? Participate in it if it needs to change direction or join a different one if that option is available. The problem at hand is that 100 people are forced to fend for themselves against a company when they could act as a block and have leverage. One problem at a time
gentleman11 5y ago
Same thing can be said of freeing slaves. “Did anybody stop to think of how it would affect the customers?!” The lower class is not a bunch of animals to be exploited as much as possible so middle class people can have cheaper shipping
- defaultprimate 5y ago
  Except slavery was economically inefficient.

the point of the union is better outcomes for the workers, not for the customers

by scotu 5y ago

the point of the union is better outcomes for the workers, not for the customers

busterarm 5y ago

collective bargaining certainly isn't better than compensation and terms that I have been able to negotiate.

scotu 5y ago
what a boring argument. Also wrong. I would put a lot of money on "you didn't a/b test collective bargaining with your own negotiation" because it's simply impossible, so you don't really know if that's true. Also most workers are not in a job with a candidate shortage (and candidate shortages don't last forever, better have a union while you have the power to make it happen then when you become a throwaway widget for your company)
- busterarm 5y ago
  I've negotiated salaries that are 2 or 3 times what my peers have made in the same position. I've also negotiated in non-standard vacation packages, like a fixed 2 months off every year. That simply doesn't happen in collective bargaining. I've hardly ever been a throwaway widget in any job and even when I was working shitty jobs I was the type to get promoted quickly. The only places this never happened were my 3 union jobs. And in each case I was forced to work for the union -- I wasn't seeking it.
  - scotu 5y ago
    yeah, collective bargaining never does any good /s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_bargaining https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_bargaining Last week tonight on union busting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk8dUXRpoy8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk8dUXRpoy8 When a union does not work or is corrupt, we fix the union, we don't give away the collective power to the opposing side of the negotiation: oh no, my lawyer is not doing my best interest he's only trying to rake up the fees! you know what? I'll let my opponent's lawyer represent me in court instead!
ausbah 5y ago
only because tech is one of the few industries where demand is greater than supply

thereisnospork 5y ago

And that there is a problem: Even if you are in a union, you are undoubtedly the customer of many unions or would-be unions. edit: clarification 'a' refers to a singular union and isn't a comment on the quality/nature of said union(s).

scotu 5y ago
ok, so what is the problem? Participate in it if it needs to change direction or join a different one if that option is available. The problem at hand is that 100 people are forced to fend for themselves against a company when they could act as a block and have leverage. One problem at a time

gentleman11 5y ago

Same thing can be said of freeing slaves. “Did anybody stop to think of how it would affect the customers?!” The lower class is not a bunch of animals to be exploited as much as possible so middle class people can have cheaper shipping

defaultprimate 5y ago
Except slavery was economically inefficient.