5 ms·

Tell HN: Can't Leave Canada After Nov 30th, If Not Vaccinated

29 points by xil3 5y ago

So, after Nov 30th (today), you can no longer board planes, trains, or pretty much any other type of transportation to leave the country, if you are not vaccinated. The US has also blocked their border to the unvaccinated, so anyone not vaccinated in Canada is pretty much a prisoner. Just curious what everyone's thoughts are on this. Not looking to start any fights, but I do think this is getting a bit crazy. And if anyone knows of any other way to leave the country, I'm all ears. My family is strongly considering leaving the country to go somewhere else, where we're not treated like second class citizens.

bigyellow 5y ago
John Spartan, you are fined one credit for a violation of the Verbal Morality Statute. Discussing vaccination restrictions has lowered your social credit score and you are now also banned from owning firearms. Oh wait, that's already the case in Canada. All joking aside, Canada is looking more fascist every day. I would be doing anything possible to leave, if I were a resident of that nation.
- xil3 5y ago
  At least I'll be able to wipe my ass with all those violations.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - xil3 5y ago
    Not sure why the post I replied to got flagged - he didn't say anything that would justify that.
    - bigyellow 5y ago
      I literally quoted Demolition Man - the irony that this comment was memory-holed is apparently lost on the moderators of this "hacker" board.
      - xil3 5y ago
        Yeah, it's a great quote given the situation. It's pretty much the direction we're going in.
version_five 5y ago
You could charter a boat? You could also take the ferry to Newfoundland and then one to St. Pierre and Michelon, ie France and fly out of there. I don't know if France has restrictions. I definitely disagree with the situation as well, but it's a global problem, better to stay and try and change things.
- xil3 5y ago
  I thought Newfoundland wasn't accepting anyone in, unless that recently changed? Chartering a boat was something I thought about.
slater 5y ago
This is great. IMO, selfishness and knee-jerk reactions to a very, VERY serious pandemic will only serve to prolong lockdown measures, however you feel about them.
- xil3 5y ago
  I never said it wasn't serious; but I'm also pro-choice. We know nothing about the long term effects of this vaccine, or how it will affect our bodies when it comes to dependencies. I understand that millions have taken it, but that still doesn't show me any long term tests. So I'm selfish because I want to protect myself and my family from something that I don't trust? I'm not anti-vax - we have all our shots. If after say 5 years, it turns out that there are no long term side effects, then I'm fine taking the vaccine.
  - mtmail 5y ago
    Another user has answered those concerns last time it came up https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29206305 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29206305
    - xil3 5y ago
      Yeah, I read all of that. We still have no definitive proof of what will happen in the next 5-10 years to people that have taken the vaccine. Just because someone said that there is nothing that can happen based on the science, doesn't mean it's definitive - it's just conjecture.
      - kjaftaedi 5y ago
        I get your point, but to uproot your entire family and existence over this is quite a stretch. Nobody wants the vaccine, but we take it not for ourselves, but our friends, families, co-workers and people in our community. The whole "I don't want the vaccine because I don't know what's in it" is a largely American theme that you find less in the rest of the developed world where people are more focused on the health of the community. You want to move away to establish yourself in another community, but do not want to participate in the well-being of that community. If this is where your heart is at you might do better to join some off the grid, eco living type community. It will give you more of what you are looking for.
maxk42 5y ago
Can you still walk across the southern border? Perhaps at one of the areas which is unguarded?
- xil3 5y ago
  I can work anywhere, as I work completely remote. We have thought about places like Mexico; but how do we get there?
  - uberman 5y ago
    While that might be more or less technically true it is certainly not legally true.
  - Jtsummers 5y ago
    If Mexico is like most countries you'll need to apply for a work permit or long-term residency permit, you won't be able to go there and work (long term at least, or legally) as a tourist. So apply today, travel in 6-12 months when you have the permit and the travel restrictions are relaxed.
wsc981 5y ago
> Just curious what everyone's thoughts are on this. Not looking to start any fights, but I do think this is getting a bit crazy. I agree it is getting crazy. I think there's a big push by governments around the world to get vaccine passports introduced world-wide [0]. Perhaps it's part of The Great Reset as proposed by Klaus Schwab? I am not sure ... Either way, the vaccine passports are pointless for various reasons. Also, even though the USA and various EU countries might want to force vaccines upon their citizens, at the same time there's very little concern on the vaccination status of illegal immigrants. At least in various countries in Europe and Australia there's been large protests recently against vaccine passports and forced vaccinations. You might not find much info about the protests in big media and YouTube, but you can find videos of these protests on alternative media. I believe everyone that values freedom should take part in these demonstrations. Once governments have introduced vaccine passports, it will be extremely difficult to get back to a world without and it will limit the freedom of you and your children. These vaccine passports will be a major step for Western societies towards becoming totalitarian states like China. I live in Thailand and as of yet things aren't too bad here, but once I see this country move towards forced vaccinations, I really want to leave with me and my daughter and I was considering Mexico as well in that case. My girlfriend probably would find it too difficult too leave, so in that case we'd have to make some hard choices ... --- [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_uAwsVn10Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_uAwsVn10Y
softwaredoug 5y ago
> anyone not vaccinated in Canada is pretty much a prisoner. They can't block US nationals, and they don't. > U.S. citizens and Lawful Permanent Residents (LPRs) who are eligible to travel but are not fully vaccinated will need to provide proof of a negative COVID-19 test one (1) day before their flight’s departure. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/ea/requirements-for-air-travelers-to-the-us.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/... It appears for canada there are many exceptions to this policy. I noticed the "If Canada is Not your Final Destination" here https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/travel-restrictions/domestic-travel#exceptions https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/travel-restrictions/domest...
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
disneygibson 5y ago
Of course it’s horrifying, especially since these actions are supported by a majority of the population. There are a few countries with little or no entry restrictions. Mexico in particular is fairly close to Canada and is open. If you are able to work remotely, I’d strongly suggest looking into it. Canada is not going to change its policies anytime soon, sadly. I’m not sure what the restrictions are, but can they actually prevent you from leaving if you are flying internationally? What about for a medical or other “official” purpose? Edit: seriously scary that this post is flagged. Not cool.
- xil3 5y ago
  Yeah, this is some serious mass hysteria, and it's not getting better. They are pinning one side against the other, and it's propelled by the government. You can't even search COVID related terms in Google without it being regulated. Try searching anything related to anti-vax. They have pushed up all the government sites at the top of the rankings for any searching that have the word COVID in it. Things are bonkers.
  - disneygibson 5y ago
    Indeed. Any mild criticism is immediately flagged, downvoted, and deleted. I don’t care how serious the pandemic is, it doesn’t justify mass hysteria. As I said, I don’t see this changing anytime soon. Your best bet is likely Mexico and/or a way into certain US states like Texas or Florida. Not sure if you can get a permanent residence card from abroad, but it may be something to investigate.
    - xil3 5y ago
      I posted this on here because I thought I can open an intellectual dialog, where we can have a mature chat. Instead, my post gets flagged, for who knows what. Seriously losing all respect for this site - it's the same as every other place that is supporting this mass hysteria. At this point, not sure what to do.
      - 5y ago
bckygldstn 5y ago
Of course other countries don't want the unvaccinated. If you won't take a small risk to prevent the spread of a deadly disease that has fucked up their country for the last 2 years, you literally are a second class citizen. Globalism isn't a right.
- dang 5y ago
  Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar, regardless of how right you are or feel you are on a topic. It just makes things worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - omni 5y ago
    Just flag or delete the thread then. The parent commenter didn't say anything egregious or explicit, they were just correctly pointing out that countries have perfectly legitimate reasons for not wanting unvaccinated visitors traveling through them. If we aren't allowed to disagree with OP in the slightest, then what's the point of keeping the thread around?
    - dang 5y ago
      The GP comment was aggressive and name-calling on an inflammatory topic. That's way over the line, not "the slightest". Of course people have strong emotions about these things. That's natural, and the site guidelines are also very clear. For example: "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- xil3 5y ago
  Everyone has their own opinions. In my mind, it's not a 'small risk'. This has nothing to do with other countries - I'm talking about Canada not allowing ANYONE (with very few exemptions) from leaving the country on flights, boats, trains. I wouldn't be going to other countries that don't want the 'unvaccinated'. I don't blame you for being brainwashed by your own government into thinking one side is evil. All you have to do is listen to all the false news from the media outlets, and you'll be indoctrinated day after day. All governments and the media are doing is pinning people against each other, nothing more. We should be able to have mature conversations without being attacked for a differing opinion.
bananabiscuit 5y ago
Israel might be a safe country to go to. The Orthodox there would make it very difficult for that country to enact a vaccine mandate.
- uberman 5y ago
  Israel has one of the stricter policies including "vaccination passports" that require a booster to be valid and must be presented at social gatherings like restaurants. International travelers to Israel must provide proof of full vaccination prior to being admitted.
  - bananabiscuit 5y ago
    For a while they allowed testing negative or recovery from a prior infection to count for the green pass. Did they change that?
    - uberman 5y ago
      Foreign travelers are currently banned altogether, but you are correct that a antibodies test was also accepted prior to the current ban.
908B64B197 5y ago
> So, after Nov 30th (today), you can no longer board planes, trains, or pretty much any other type of transportation to leave the country, if you are not vaccinated. Even inside the country from what I understand. Free movement is no longer a right it seems. Keep in mind that the current leader's father decided to suspend constitutional rights (because that's a thing over there!?) for dubious reasons back in the 70's. So it's not exactly new.
- uberman 5y ago
  The FLQ Crisis was a real thing and members of my family in the Canadian military were impacted. At the time, the war measures act was supported by 90% of the population. Perhaps you should take a few minutes to read up on it and then imagine what would happen if Florida separatists kidnapped and then killed Ron DeSantis. How do you imagine the US would have responded?
  - 908B64B197 5y ago
    Wasn't most of the evidence just planted there by the feds? They ended up not being able to prosecute no?
    - uberman 5y ago
      Like the mail bombs and the dead Deputy Premier in the trunk of a car? No, that was not "planted" by the feds. While most of those initially arrested under the war measures act were released without charges, more than 60 were charged and more than 30 with crimes serious enough to deny them bail. Five of the kidnappers ultimately traded their victim for a ride to Cuba.
      - 908B64B197 5y ago
        > Like the mail bombs But the feds did admit to that. > While most of those initially arrested under the war measures act were released without charges, more than 60 were charged and more than 30 with crimes serious enough to deny them bail. That's not good. Arresting and denying bail is one thing (and apparently it was done for arbitrary reasons because why not), getting a real conviction to stand the test of court is an other one. I mean, sure, if you stop and frisk every black person at a busy intersection without cause you'll eventually find an "illegal enough" item to charge one of them. > Five of the kidnappers ultimately traded their victim for a ride to Cuba. Alleged kidnappers and alleged victims. The court couldn't prove anything. And honestly, Canada is playing the same games by keeping known terrorists like Omar Khader from getting extradited and tried for the murders they committed. For political reasons of course. So could these individuals really expect a fair trial with constitutional rights suspended? Don't think so.
jleyank 5y ago
Assuming that Omicron (or the next variant) is more contagious than Delta, then pretty much everybody who's not a hermit will either be vaccinated, recovered/recovering or dead in the next couple of years. Possibly more than one of these categories, unfortunately. That said, why not improve the odds for you and others AND reduce the ability of the virus to spread to naive hosts... And if you don't like any of the current vaccines, then you're certainly not going to like the disease itself. The goal is to keep people out of hospital and to build up sufficient resistance to (hopefully) turn COVID into a bad flu or better. It seems too variable to go away at this instant - we've not gotten rid of flu but it's been less fatal.

29 points by xil3 5y ago

bigyellow 5y ago

John Spartan, you are fined one credit for a violation of the Verbal Morality Statute. Discussing vaccination restrictions has lowered your social credit score and you are now also banned from owning firearms. Oh wait, that's already the case in Canada. All joking aside, Canada is looking more fascist every day. I would be doing anything possible to leave, if I were a resident of that nation.

xil3 5y ago
At least I'll be able to wipe my ass with all those violations.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- xil3 5y ago
  Not sure why the post I replied to got flagged - he didn't say anything that would justify that.
  - bigyellow 5y ago
    I literally quoted Demolition Man - the irony that this comment was memory-holed is apparently lost on the moderators of this "hacker" board.
    - xil3 5y ago
      Yeah, it's a great quote given the situation. It's pretty much the direction we're going in.

version_five 5y ago

You could charter a boat? You could also take the ferry to Newfoundland and then one to St. Pierre and Michelon, ie France and fly out of there. I don't know if France has restrictions. I definitely disagree with the situation as well, but it's a global problem, better to stay and try and change things.

xil3 5y ago
I thought Newfoundland wasn't accepting anyone in, unless that recently changed? Chartering a boat was something I thought about.

slater 5y ago

This is great. IMO, selfishness and knee-jerk reactions to a very, VERY serious pandemic will only serve to prolong lockdown measures, however you feel about them.

xil3 5y ago
I never said it wasn't serious; but I'm also pro-choice. We know nothing about the long term effects of this vaccine, or how it will affect our bodies when it comes to dependencies. I understand that millions have taken it, but that still doesn't show me any long term tests. So I'm selfish because I want to protect myself and my family from something that I don't trust? I'm not anti-vax - we have all our shots. If after say 5 years, it turns out that there are no long term side effects, then I'm fine taking the vaccine.
- mtmail 5y ago
  Another user has answered those concerns last time it came up https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29206305 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29206305
  - xil3 5y ago
    Yeah, I read all of that. We still have no definitive proof of what will happen in the next 5-10 years to people that have taken the vaccine. Just because someone said that there is nothing that can happen based on the science, doesn't mean it's definitive - it's just conjecture.
    - kjaftaedi 5y ago
      I get your point, but to uproot your entire family and existence over this is quite a stretch. Nobody wants the vaccine, but we take it not for ourselves, but our friends, families, co-workers and people in our community. The whole "I don't want the vaccine because I don't know what's in it" is a largely American theme that you find less in the rest of the developed world where people are more focused on the health of the community. You want to move away to establish yourself in another community, but do not want to participate in the well-being of that community. If this is where your heart is at you might do better to join some off the grid, eco living type community. It will give you more of what you are looking for.

maxk42 5y ago

Can you still walk across the southern border? Perhaps at one of the areas which is unguarded?

xil3 5y ago
I can work anywhere, as I work completely remote. We have thought about places like Mexico; but how do we get there?
- uberman 5y ago
  While that might be more or less technically true it is certainly not legally true.
- Jtsummers 5y ago
  If Mexico is like most countries you'll need to apply for a work permit or long-term residency permit, you won't be able to go there and work (long term at least, or legally) as a tourist. So apply today, travel in 6-12 months when you have the permit and the travel restrictions are relaxed.

wsc981 5y ago

> Just curious what everyone's thoughts are on this. Not looking to start any fights, but I do think this is getting a bit crazy. I agree it is getting crazy. I think there's a big push by governments around the world to get vaccine passports introduced world-wide [0]. Perhaps it's part of The Great Reset as proposed by Klaus Schwab? I am not sure ... Either way, the vaccine passports are pointless for various reasons. Also, even though the USA and various EU countries might want to force vaccines upon their citizens, at the same time there's very little concern on the vaccination status of illegal immigrants. At least in various countries in Europe and Australia there's been large protests recently against vaccine passports and forced vaccinations. You might not find much info about the protests in big media and YouTube, but you can find videos of these protests on alternative media. I believe everyone that values freedom should take part in these demonstrations. Once governments have introduced vaccine passports, it will be extremely difficult to get back to a world without and it will limit the freedom of you and your children. These vaccine passports will be a major step for Western societies towards becoming totalitarian states like China. I live in Thailand and as of yet things aren't too bad here, but once I see this country move towards forced vaccinations, I really want to leave with me and my daughter and I was considering Mexico as well in that case. My girlfriend probably would find it too difficult too leave, so in that case we'd have to make some hard choices ... --- [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_uAwsVn10Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_uAwsVn10Y

softwaredoug 5y ago

> anyone not vaccinated in Canada is pretty much a prisoner. They can't block US nationals, and they don't. > U.S. citizens and Lawful Permanent Residents (LPRs) who are eligible to travel but are not fully vaccinated will need to provide proof of a negative COVID-19 test one (1) day before their flight’s departure. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/ea/requirements-for-air-travelers-to-the-us.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/... It appears for canada there are many exceptions to this policy. I noticed the "If Canada is Not your Final Destination" here https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/travel-restrictions/domestic-travel#exceptions https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/travel-restrictions/domest...

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

disneygibson 5y ago

Of course it’s horrifying, especially since these actions are supported by a majority of the population. There are a few countries with little or no entry restrictions. Mexico in particular is fairly close to Canada and is open. If you are able to work remotely, I’d strongly suggest looking into it. Canada is not going to change its policies anytime soon, sadly. I’m not sure what the restrictions are, but can they actually prevent you from leaving if you are flying internationally? What about for a medical or other “official” purpose? Edit: seriously scary that this post is flagged. Not cool.

xil3 5y ago
Yeah, this is some serious mass hysteria, and it's not getting better. They are pinning one side against the other, and it's propelled by the government. You can't even search COVID related terms in Google without it being regulated. Try searching anything related to anti-vax. They have pushed up all the government sites at the top of the rankings for any searching that have the word COVID in it. Things are bonkers.
- disneygibson 5y ago
  Indeed. Any mild criticism is immediately flagged, downvoted, and deleted. I don’t care how serious the pandemic is, it doesn’t justify mass hysteria. As I said, I don’t see this changing anytime soon. Your best bet is likely Mexico and/or a way into certain US states like Texas or Florida. Not sure if you can get a permanent residence card from abroad, but it may be something to investigate.
  - xil3 5y ago
    I posted this on here because I thought I can open an intellectual dialog, where we can have a mature chat. Instead, my post gets flagged, for who knows what. Seriously losing all respect for this site - it's the same as every other place that is supporting this mass hysteria. At this point, not sure what to do.
    - 5y ago

bckygldstn 5y ago

Of course other countries don't want the unvaccinated. If you won't take a small risk to prevent the spread of a deadly disease that has fucked up their country for the last 2 years, you literally are a second class citizen. Globalism isn't a right.

dang 5y ago
Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar, regardless of how right you are or feel you are on a topic. It just makes things worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- omni 5y ago
  Just flag or delete the thread then. The parent commenter didn't say anything egregious or explicit, they were just correctly pointing out that countries have perfectly legitimate reasons for not wanting unvaccinated visitors traveling through them. If we aren't allowed to disagree with OP in the slightest, then what's the point of keeping the thread around?
  - dang 5y ago
    The GP comment was aggressive and name-calling on an inflammatory topic. That's way over the line, not "the slightest". Of course people have strong emotions about these things. That's natural, and the site guidelines are also very clear. For example: "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
xil3 5y ago
Everyone has their own opinions. In my mind, it's not a 'small risk'. This has nothing to do with other countries - I'm talking about Canada not allowing ANYONE (with very few exemptions) from leaving the country on flights, boats, trains. I wouldn't be going to other countries that don't want the 'unvaccinated'. I don't blame you for being brainwashed by your own government into thinking one side is evil. All you have to do is listen to all the false news from the media outlets, and you'll be indoctrinated day after day. All governments and the media are doing is pinning people against each other, nothing more. We should be able to have mature conversations without being attacked for a differing opinion.

bananabiscuit 5y ago

Israel might be a safe country to go to. The Orthodox there would make it very difficult for that country to enact a vaccine mandate.

uberman 5y ago
Israel has one of the stricter policies including "vaccination passports" that require a booster to be valid and must be presented at social gatherings like restaurants. International travelers to Israel must provide proof of full vaccination prior to being admitted.
- bananabiscuit 5y ago
  For a while they allowed testing negative or recovery from a prior infection to count for the green pass. Did they change that?
  - uberman 5y ago
    Foreign travelers are currently banned altogether, but you are correct that a antibodies test was also accepted prior to the current ban.

908B64B197 5y ago

> So, after Nov 30th (today), you can no longer board planes, trains, or pretty much any other type of transportation to leave the country, if you are not vaccinated. Even inside the country from what I understand. Free movement is no longer a right it seems. Keep in mind that the current leader's father decided to suspend constitutional rights (because that's a thing over there!?) for dubious reasons back in the 70's. So it's not exactly new.

uberman 5y ago
The FLQ Crisis was a real thing and members of my family in the Canadian military were impacted. At the time, the war measures act was supported by 90% of the population. Perhaps you should take a few minutes to read up on it and then imagine what would happen if Florida separatists kidnapped and then killed Ron DeSantis. How do you imagine the US would have responded?
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  Wasn't most of the evidence just planted there by the feds? They ended up not being able to prosecute no?
  - uberman 5y ago
    Like the mail bombs and the dead Deputy Premier in the trunk of a car? No, that was not "planted" by the feds. While most of those initially arrested under the war measures act were released without charges, more than 60 were charged and more than 30 with crimes serious enough to deny them bail. Five of the kidnappers ultimately traded their victim for a ride to Cuba.
    - 908B64B197 5y ago
      > Like the mail bombs But the feds did admit to that. > While most of those initially arrested under the war measures act were released without charges, more than 60 were charged and more than 30 with crimes serious enough to deny them bail. That's not good. Arresting and denying bail is one thing (and apparently it was done for arbitrary reasons because why not), getting a real conviction to stand the test of court is an other one. I mean, sure, if you stop and frisk every black person at a busy intersection without cause you'll eventually find an "illegal enough" item to charge one of them. > Five of the kidnappers ultimately traded their victim for a ride to Cuba. Alleged kidnappers and alleged victims. The court couldn't prove anything. And honestly, Canada is playing the same games by keeping known terrorists like Omar Khader from getting extradited and tried for the murders they committed. For political reasons of course. So could these individuals really expect a fair trial with constitutional rights suspended? Don't think so.

jleyank 5y ago

Assuming that Omicron (or the next variant) is more contagious than Delta, then pretty much everybody who's not a hermit will either be vaccinated, recovered/recovering or dead in the next couple of years. Possibly more than one of these categories, unfortunately. That said, why not improve the odds for you and others AND reduce the ability of the virus to spread to naive hosts... And if you don't like any of the current vaccines, then you're certainly not going to like the disease itself. The goal is to keep people out of hospital and to build up sufficient resistance to (hopefully) turn COVID into a bad flu or better. It seems too variable to go away at this instant - we've not gotten rid of flu but it's been less fatal.