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The white collar blue collar divide is much stronger than the divide between white collar employees and senior management. Source: lived it The programmer has

The white collar blue collar divide is much stronger than the divide between white collar employees and senior management. Source: lived it The programmer has far more in common and can relate (both culturally and economically) far better to the C suite crowd than to the janitor or landscaper.

nobodyandproud 5y ago
> The programmer has far more in common and can relate far better to the C suite crowd than to the janitor or landscaper. That’s a matter of perspective. Yes, both are degreed and educated. But that’s where the sameness ends. One may think they’re like the other, but have you heard the term “coding monkey”? Without fail and by necessity every single company has fallen victim to leadership who are less technical and more business minded. Think of Boeing and Google as two recent examples. The better ones tend to keep a strong technical person as a sidekick, but everyone else is fighting for scraps. The rarest and “best” individuals possess both technical savvy and ruthlessness.
hnaccount141 5y ago
In terms of cultural differences, the blue/white collar divide is definitely massive. I believe the parent comment is looking at it in more economic terms, where the worker/employer distinction is more meaningful.
black_13 5y ago
I have nothing in common with the C suite class. And I have seen how reckless this class has acted given the recessions and wars. Nothing.
salawat 5y ago
>The white collar blue collar divide is much stronger than the divide between white collar employees and senior management. Yes, and no. Yes, in the sense that as an engineer you tend to have goals and work directed in the same overall direction as management. Optimize for max output for minimum cost. Your work product also typically is geared toward the eventual outcome of decreasing reliance on manual labor through automation. No; in the sense that you don't get to set the incentives. You're optimizing toward what they will let you optimize toward which will often not actually be what you're told it is. The familiarity you develop as white collar can make this stand out in stark relief if you pay attention to it. Examine a call center implemented well vs. one implemented poorly. Completely different beasts. Or a warehouse. Same thing. You're a force multiplier for those there. You don't get to set the resources, you just have to do the best with what you've got. Ultimately, it comes down, for me, what are you automating for? I wake up, and I try to deburden people first and foremost. I'm there to make sure people have the tools best fit to helping them do what they are there to do in the most ergonomic way possible. Over time, I've skewed more blue collar in my sympathies. I don't like being perception managed, and management theory 101 is chock full of it. I work to get shit done, and help make it easier for others to do so. This creates... more quandaries than I like with traditional leadership types than I like at times, but it is what it is. I will say that if anyone has responsibility for the creation of inequity, at the end of the day, your capital allocating institutions are it.

nobodyandproud 5y ago

> The programmer has far more in common and can relate far better to the C suite crowd than to the janitor or landscaper. That’s a matter of perspective. Yes, both are degreed and educated. But that’s where the sameness ends. One may think they’re like the other, but have you heard the term “coding monkey”? Without fail and by necessity every single company has fallen victim to leadership who are less technical and more business minded. Think of Boeing and Google as two recent examples. The better ones tend to keep a strong technical person as a sidekick, but everyone else is fighting for scraps. The rarest and “best” individuals possess both technical savvy and ruthlessness.

hnaccount141 5y ago

In terms of cultural differences, the blue/white collar divide is definitely massive. I believe the parent comment is looking at it in more economic terms, where the worker/employer distinction is more meaningful.

black_13 5y ago

I have nothing in common with the C suite class. And I have seen how reckless this class has acted given the recessions and wars. Nothing.

salawat 5y ago

>The white collar blue collar divide is much stronger than the divide between white collar employees and senior management. Yes, and no. Yes, in the sense that as an engineer you tend to have goals and work directed in the same overall direction as management. Optimize for max output for minimum cost. Your work product also typically is geared toward the eventual outcome of decreasing reliance on manual labor through automation. No; in the sense that you don't get to set the incentives. You're optimizing toward what they will let you optimize toward which will often not actually be what you're told it is. The familiarity you develop as white collar can make this stand out in stark relief if you pay attention to it. Examine a call center implemented well vs. one implemented poorly. Completely different beasts. Or a warehouse. Same thing. You're a force multiplier for those there. You don't get to set the resources, you just have to do the best with what you've got. Ultimately, it comes down, for me, what are you automating for? I wake up, and I try to deburden people first and foremost. I'm there to make sure people have the tools best fit to helping them do what they are there to do in the most ergonomic way possible. Over time, I've skewed more blue collar in my sympathies. I don't like being perception managed, and management theory 101 is chock full of it. I work to get shit done, and help make it easier for others to do so. This creates... more quandaries than I like with traditional leadership types than I like at times, but it is what it is. I will say that if anyone has responsibility for the creation of inequity, at the end of the day, your capital allocating institutions are it.