6 ms·

Only 16% voted for it the first time. Even if I consider Amazon meddling, I'm guessing there won't be enough support for it this time either. Probably just pe

by tyingq 5y ago

Only 16% voted for it the first time. Even if I consider Amazon meddling, I'm guessing there won't be enough support for it this time either. Probably just people weighing the dues versus what a union could potentially do for them. It's hard to convince someone making $15/hour that their $500/year will pan out. I personally think it would, but selling that idea is another thing.

cmh89 5y ago
It's not hard if you've ever been in a union. I'm in a union and while wages are important, its the peace of mind knowing my boss can't fire because she's having a bad day or force me to work unpaid overtime that I really value.
- adamsb6 5y ago
  In the US overtime pay is already guaranteed by law, unless you're salaried.
  - karmajunkie 5y ago
    Right, but as with many things guaranteed by law, enforcing the law is another matter.
  - cmh89 5y ago
    Unfortunately the US has comically weak enforcement of labor laws. I've experienced and heard many examples of this from over the years including managers asking employees to clock-out and finish their work. While that is illegal, the State is completely ineffective in protecting workers who file complaints. Amazon itself is currently being sued for failing to provide required breaks. They are infamous for making it hard to even go to the bathroom. That would never fly at my shop. Of course, that's just one example. I also love that management can't just shift more and more responsibility onto me to save money or arbitrarily increase the complexity of my work without an increase in pay.
    - PragmaticPulp 5y ago
      > While that is illegal, the State is completely ineffective in protecting workers who file complaints. I don't know which state you're in, but this is absolutely not true where I grew up. A complaint to the state labor board brought the hammer down ASAP. The people who enforce these things absolutely love to have something to track down.
  - swiftcoder 5y ago
    Enforcement of said law is another matter entirely. The union tends to have enough negotiating power to keep the employer honest about overtime.
  - tyingq 5y ago
    Filing a union grievance for overtime violations is a much simpler process than what you would have to do in a non-union shop. And comes with a fair amount of protection against retaliation.
  - Frondo 5y ago
    While true, this ignores how widespread wage theft is, especially among lower-paid workers. Here's one example of unpaid overtime wages, nearly a million dollars worth, being stolen from workers: > After receiving a wage complaint from a worker who failed to receive any money for his work, California Labor Commissioner Julie Su’s office began investigating contractor Tadros & Youssef Construction’s work on the Highland Oaks Elementary School construction project. Su’s office discovered that nine other employees earned below the prevailing wage and were not paid for overtime hours on this same project. The resulting settlement forced Tadros & Youssef to pay $877,876.64 restitution to the 10 workers. The contracting firm is no longer in business. From: https://www.epi.org/publication/epidemic-wage-theft-costing-workers-hundreds/# https://www.epi.org/publication/epidemic-wage-theft-costing-...
mdavis6890 5y ago
Or maybe people are considering things other than their personal wallet when deciding whether to support unionization or not. Some folks just don't want to be part of a union, even if there weren't any dues.
- tyingq 5y ago
  That's fair, though if I had a $15/hour job and had to pee in a jug to keep up with work quotas, I would at least be interested to hear the sales pitch.
elliekelly 5y ago
Pushing it to a second vote is a key (and unethical) strategy for companies avoiding a union because the second vote almost always goes in management’s favor.
- tyingq 5y ago
  The first vote went in management's favor though.
- driverdan 5y ago
  That doesn't make sense. The first vote went in management's favor. There is no reason for them to want a second vote.
vanusa 5y ago
Only 16% voted for it the first time. The vote, as such, as 1798 to 738, or 29 percent pro-union. How do you get 16 percent from that?
- tyingq 5y ago
  Ah, yes, pulled from an article. 16% of all employees, 29% of those who voted...many did not vote. Seems I missed a clever Amazon spokesperson representation of the vote :)
  - vanusa 5y ago
    That's what they get paid for, after all.
gentleman11 5y ago
What would you vote if your employer was surveillance you as you voted and was famous for mistreating people or callously firing people and spend weeks or months warning you not to vote against them? Jesus, what do you expect? Elections in the Soviet Union used similar conditions: do you really think those Soviet leaders always had 90%+ support? Maybe a bit of pressure was involved? Especially when everyone knows Amazon can access the ballot box, so why risk it if you think it’s fixed?

by tyingq 5y ago

cmh89 5y ago

It's not hard if you've ever been in a union. I'm in a union and while wages are important, its the peace of mind knowing my boss can't fire because she's having a bad day or force me to work unpaid overtime that I really value.

adamsb6 5y ago
In the US overtime pay is already guaranteed by law, unless you're salaried.
- karmajunkie 5y ago
  Right, but as with many things guaranteed by law, enforcing the law is another matter.
- cmh89 5y ago
  Unfortunately the US has comically weak enforcement of labor laws. I've experienced and heard many examples of this from over the years including managers asking employees to clock-out and finish their work. While that is illegal, the State is completely ineffective in protecting workers who file complaints. Amazon itself is currently being sued for failing to provide required breaks. They are infamous for making it hard to even go to the bathroom. That would never fly at my shop. Of course, that's just one example. I also love that management can't just shift more and more responsibility onto me to save money or arbitrarily increase the complexity of my work without an increase in pay.
  - PragmaticPulp 5y ago
    > While that is illegal, the State is completely ineffective in protecting workers who file complaints. I don't know which state you're in, but this is absolutely not true where I grew up. A complaint to the state labor board brought the hammer down ASAP. The people who enforce these things absolutely love to have something to track down.
- swiftcoder 5y ago
  Enforcement of said law is another matter entirely. The union tends to have enough negotiating power to keep the employer honest about overtime.
- tyingq 5y ago
  Filing a union grievance for overtime violations is a much simpler process than what you would have to do in a non-union shop. And comes with a fair amount of protection against retaliation.
- Frondo 5y ago
  While true, this ignores how widespread wage theft is, especially among lower-paid workers. Here's one example of unpaid overtime wages, nearly a million dollars worth, being stolen from workers: > After receiving a wage complaint from a worker who failed to receive any money for his work, California Labor Commissioner Julie Su’s office began investigating contractor Tadros & Youssef Construction’s work on the Highland Oaks Elementary School construction project. Su’s office discovered that nine other employees earned below the prevailing wage and were not paid for overtime hours on this same project. The resulting settlement forced Tadros & Youssef to pay $877,876.64 restitution to the 10 workers. The contracting firm is no longer in business. From: https://www.epi.org/publication/epidemic-wage-theft-costing-workers-hundreds/# https://www.epi.org/publication/epidemic-wage-theft-costing-...

mdavis6890 5y ago

Or maybe people are considering things other than their personal wallet when deciding whether to support unionization or not. Some folks just don't want to be part of a union, even if there weren't any dues.

tyingq 5y ago
That's fair, though if I had a $15/hour job and had to pee in a jug to keep up with work quotas, I would at least be interested to hear the sales pitch.

elliekelly 5y ago

Pushing it to a second vote is a key (and unethical) strategy for companies avoiding a union because the second vote almost always goes in management’s favor.

tyingq 5y ago
The first vote went in management's favor though.
driverdan 5y ago
That doesn't make sense. The first vote went in management's favor. There is no reason for them to want a second vote.

vanusa 5y ago

Only 16% voted for it the first time. The vote, as such, as 1798 to 738, or 29 percent pro-union. How do you get 16 percent from that?

tyingq 5y ago
Ah, yes, pulled from an article. 16% of all employees, 29% of those who voted...many did not vote. Seems I missed a clever Amazon spokesperson representation of the vote :)
- vanusa 5y ago
  That's what they get paid for, after all.

gentleman11 5y ago

What would you vote if your employer was surveillance you as you voted and was famous for mistreating people or callously firing people and spend weeks or months warning you not to vote against them? Jesus, what do you expect? Elections in the Soviet Union used similar conditions: do you really think those Soviet leaders always had 90%+ support? Maybe a bit of pressure was involved? Especially when everyone knows Amazon can access the ballot box, so why risk it if you think it’s fixed?