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It's not "code". Saying "that idea is stupid" is different from saying "you are stupid". Nobody has to be "in on" anything. However, unless one is used to this

It's not "code". Saying "that idea is stupid" is different from saying "you are stupid". Nobody has to be "in on" anything. However, unless one is used to this frank style of communication, I'm sure it can be off-putting.

crispyambulance 5y ago
"used to" is basically the same thing as "in on it". Moreover, context matters a lot with language style. One can't just lift Feynman's way of talking, transplant it somewhere else and expect it to be effective.
watwut 5y ago
It still makes you a rude jerk in most situations.
- luckydata 5y ago
  In the USA it does, in Europe it's way more normal.
- blitzar 5y ago
  If I throw a bad pass in a ball game, and it gets called out as such, does that imply that they consider me a 'bad person'? Possibly some totally irredeemable piece of shit that should be locked up and not around children? Or is a bad pass, like a the bad idea thrown out there, just that?
  - whimsicalism 5y ago
    It's a line. I would not want ideas in my workplace to regularly be called "stupid" but I wouldn't mind "bad" nearly as much.
  - smcl 5y ago
    Ok first - no it doesn't make you an irredeemable piece of shit or a bad person. But if you do it in a weird way it does mean that you're someone who's lacking in social skills. We're talking in abstract ideas so I can't possibly know what you meant but: blitzar: what the fuck is wrong with you, smcl, that's two goals you've cost us because you lost your man and blitzar: for fuck's sake, smcl, focus, watch #11 he's killing us with those runs. we're not out of the game but you need to step it up are two ways you as a teammate could probably admonish me for costing our team a couple of goals. Both involve swearing, both are blunt and establish some fault. One is useless ranting, and will probably heap misery on the teammate and make them wish for the final whistle. The other is relatively productive and could possibly help (depending on how useless or hungover I am). So it depends, if by "called out" you mean something like #1 then I strongly disagree. If it's #2 then cool, I'd like you as a teammate :) But on that original topic, I think that when someone says they think "that's a stupid idea" is unconstructive or damaging, it doesn't mean they want to be coddled, given a treat and told they're special. It just means that's a needlessly confrontational approach. If that person at the top of this thread is really on the same wavelength with some people that they can openly talk like that, more power to them. But I suspect what's actually happening is a handful of students were talking that way, and most people secretly resented it and didn't enjoy being around them because of how they acted. Then again, if it's coming from Feynmann I imagine there's something in the tone, delivery or context that would soften the blow :)
SavantIdiot 5y ago
You have incorrectly interpreted the thread. It literally starts with Feynman saying, "That's stupid," and the subsequent poster claims that it is to be implied the idea is stupid, not the person. I point out that lacking "that idea", it becomes code.
- slingnow 5y ago
  So can you explain exactly what the "that" in "That's stupid" is referring to?
  - SavantIdiot 5y ago
    You are free to say whatever you want and speak however you like. Just remember not everyone fills in the blanks the same way, and when being critical it is important to be specific. If that bothers you and you want to grind away at it to prove your way of speaking is correct, good luck with that. I hope you end up working with people who feel the same way.
    - inputvolch 5y ago
      You didn't answer the question, and instead leapt to something hand wavey about how people fill in blanks. Nobody is grinding away at anything, perhaps other than yourself. It seems many people here are mystified by your unyielding interpretation of a two word sentence and nobody can seem to get a straight answer out of you, other than repeating the truism that "it's not obvious".
- OnlineGladiator 5y ago
  It's not code. "That's stupid" is short for "that idea is stupid." There's no way to change it to "that idea is stupid and therefore you are too" without the person making the leap on their own. It only says how insecure someone is to assume that.
  - jolmg 5y ago
    > without the person making the leap on their own. It only says how insecure someone is to assume that. Not necessarily. There are social environments where things aren't said directly, but rather communicated through choice of words, body language and actions. People can make their thoughts abundantly clear without saying them directly, and some would expect you to understand even if they don't communicate it directly. Figuring out if a person/group says things directly or indirectly is part of the code. It's not necessarily about insecurity. Even a person secure in their own abilities can benefit from understanding when people communicate heavily between the lines.

crispyambulance 5y ago

"used to" is basically the same thing as "in on it". Moreover, context matters a lot with language style. One can't just lift Feynman's way of talking, transplant it somewhere else and expect it to be effective.

watwut 5y ago

It still makes you a rude jerk in most situations.

luckydata 5y ago
In the USA it does, in Europe it's way more normal.
blitzar 5y ago
If I throw a bad pass in a ball game, and it gets called out as such, does that imply that they consider me a 'bad person'? Possibly some totally irredeemable piece of shit that should be locked up and not around children? Or is a bad pass, like a the bad idea thrown out there, just that?
- whimsicalism 5y ago
  It's a line. I would not want ideas in my workplace to regularly be called "stupid" but I wouldn't mind "bad" nearly as much.
- smcl 5y ago
  Ok first - no it doesn't make you an irredeemable piece of shit or a bad person. But if you do it in a weird way it does mean that you're someone who's lacking in social skills. We're talking in abstract ideas so I can't possibly know what you meant but: blitzar: what the fuck is wrong with you, smcl, that's two goals you've cost us because you lost your man and blitzar: for fuck's sake, smcl, focus, watch #11 he's killing us with those runs. we're not out of the game but you need to step it up are two ways you as a teammate could probably admonish me for costing our team a couple of goals. Both involve swearing, both are blunt and establish some fault. One is useless ranting, and will probably heap misery on the teammate and make them wish for the final whistle. The other is relatively productive and could possibly help (depending on how useless or hungover I am). So it depends, if by "called out" you mean something like #1 then I strongly disagree. If it's #2 then cool, I'd like you as a teammate :) But on that original topic, I think that when someone says they think "that's a stupid idea" is unconstructive or damaging, it doesn't mean they want to be coddled, given a treat and told they're special. It just means that's a needlessly confrontational approach. If that person at the top of this thread is really on the same wavelength with some people that they can openly talk like that, more power to them. But I suspect what's actually happening is a handful of students were talking that way, and most people secretly resented it and didn't enjoy being around them because of how they acted. Then again, if it's coming from Feynmann I imagine there's something in the tone, delivery or context that would soften the blow :)

SavantIdiot 5y ago

You have incorrectly interpreted the thread. It literally starts with Feynman saying, "That's stupid," and the subsequent poster claims that it is to be implied the idea is stupid, not the person. I point out that lacking "that idea", it becomes code.

slingnow 5y ago
So can you explain exactly what the "that" in "That's stupid" is referring to?
- SavantIdiot 5y ago
  You are free to say whatever you want and speak however you like. Just remember not everyone fills in the blanks the same way, and when being critical it is important to be specific. If that bothers you and you want to grind away at it to prove your way of speaking is correct, good luck with that. I hope you end up working with people who feel the same way.
  - inputvolch 5y ago
    You didn't answer the question, and instead leapt to something hand wavey about how people fill in blanks. Nobody is grinding away at anything, perhaps other than yourself. It seems many people here are mystified by your unyielding interpretation of a two word sentence and nobody can seem to get a straight answer out of you, other than repeating the truism that "it's not obvious".
OnlineGladiator 5y ago
It's not code. "That's stupid" is short for "that idea is stupid." There's no way to change it to "that idea is stupid and therefore you are too" without the person making the leap on their own. It only says how insecure someone is to assume that.
- jolmg 5y ago
  > without the person making the leap on their own. It only says how insecure someone is to assume that. Not necessarily. There are social environments where things aren't said directly, but rather communicated through choice of words, body language and actions. People can make their thoughts abundantly clear without saying them directly, and some would expect you to understand even if they don't communicate it directly. Figuring out if a person/group says things directly or indirectly is part of the code. It's not necessarily about insecurity. Even a person secure in their own abilities can benefit from understanding when people communicate heavily between the lines.