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It's interesting how a lot of this hinges on a mailbox which was placed under Amazon's direction and unclear to employees if Amazon could also read the ballots

It's interesting how a lot of this hinges on a mailbox which was placed under Amazon's direction and unclear to employees if Amazon could also read the ballots from it. No doubt that is shady and weird. I really wish more would/could be done about how Amazon mandated employees watch hours of propaganda and meeting with countless managers about how unions are bad. Almost everyone claims advertisements don't work on them and that if they were bombarded with messaging they wouldn't be affected, but hey advertisement isn't a billion dollar industry for nothing, and similarly I'm sure trillion dollar companies can pay for the best knowledge on union busting.

sjg007 5y ago
John Oliver has a good episode on union busting on his HBO show "Last Week Tonight".
- brightball 5y ago
  I used to think well of those John Oliver pieces until he did one about a subject I knew deeply. Now I assume everything he does is a one sided hit piece that leaves out important details that completely change the picture.
  - orangejewce 5y ago
    The one on the energy grid was wrong on many levels, and didn't understand fundamentally the relationship between renewables generation and transmission.
    - sjg007 5y ago
      What is was specifically wrong? Can you clarify?
  - sjg007 5y ago
    What subject do you know deeply and what is your specific criticism of his piece?
  - AlgorithmicTime 5y ago
    [dead]
- joenot443 5y ago
  I wouldn't encourage anyone to learn about complex topics from John Oliver in the same way I wouldn't encourage them to learn about them from Tucker Carlson. They're both entertainers first and foremost and have little to no obligation to report on the basis of fact and instead exist largely to tell their viewers what they already believe.
Mountain_Skies 5y ago
Narrowly targeted advertising to a captive audience likely works to some extent but it's rare that an advertiser is ever able to get that. Something like a sports stadium where almost everyone there is a sports fan and can't mute to Jumbotron advertising to them is the closest most advertisers get. In Amazon's case, they have not only an extremely narrowly targeted audience but also one that's extremely captive to seeing the message.
- ModernMech 5y ago
  Not only that, most advertisers don't have control over their target's income and healthcare. When someone in control of your life like that tells you they really really don't want you to do something, a lot of people tend to listen.
kyrra 5y ago
Employees there were getting advertisements in both directions though, right?
- marricks 5y ago
  What a vague way to put it, but of course, sure, there was a unionizing effort. I think an interesting example of how powerful Amazon is is that changed traffic light timing to inhibit the unionizing effort[1] [1] https://www.theverge.com/2021/2/17/22287191/amazon-alabama-warehouse-union-traffic-light-change-bessemer https://www.theverge.com/2021/2/17/22287191/amazon-alabama-w...
- tedivm 5y ago
  There's a difference between putting up a flyer telling people their rights, and having them sit through hours of video as part of their actual job. Scale matters.
- dhosek 5y ago
  The employer can make employees sit through anti-union presentations. The union does not have equivalent access to the employees. There are also borderline illegal practices like saying that unionization might lead the company to shut down the facility.¹ ⸻ 1. Employers are prohibited from saying that they will fire people who vote for unionization but they are allowed to say that they might shut down a shop that votes for a union. Interestingly, while this is a frequent threat, the instances of an employer ever actually following through are vanishingly small.
  - AnthonyMouse 5y ago
    > Interestingly, while this is a frequent threat, the instances of an employer ever actually following through are vanishingly small. The more common occurrence is for the employer to let the union go on strike. Then the employer keeps the shop open by hiring new workers from outside the union and lets the union stay on strike forever. Obviously the effect on the union workers is basically the same.
    - 5y ago
grlass 5y ago
> I'm sure trillion dollar companies can pay for the best knowledge on union busting. Indeed, Amazon have used the Pinkerton detective agency [1] against their employees to root out union activity. For those unfamiliar, the Pinkertons have existed in the US since the 1850s, with a history fraught with violence and questionable ethics, famously the Homestead strike of 1892 [2]. [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-pinkerton-spies-worker-labor-unions-2020-11?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-pinkerton-spies-worke... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_strike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_strike
- malfist 5y ago
  I did a research paper back in college on the homestead strike and haymarket riots. Strange to see Pinkerton is still around and unchanged.

sjg007 5y ago

John Oliver has a good episode on union busting on his HBO show "Last Week Tonight".

brightball 5y ago
I used to think well of those John Oliver pieces until he did one about a subject I knew deeply. Now I assume everything he does is a one sided hit piece that leaves out important details that completely change the picture.
- orangejewce 5y ago
  The one on the energy grid was wrong on many levels, and didn't understand fundamentally the relationship between renewables generation and transmission.
  - sjg007 5y ago
    What is was specifically wrong? Can you clarify?
- sjg007 5y ago
  What subject do you know deeply and what is your specific criticism of his piece?
- AlgorithmicTime 5y ago
  [dead]
joenot443 5y ago
I wouldn't encourage anyone to learn about complex topics from John Oliver in the same way I wouldn't encourage them to learn about them from Tucker Carlson. They're both entertainers first and foremost and have little to no obligation to report on the basis of fact and instead exist largely to tell their viewers what they already believe.

Mountain_Skies 5y ago

Narrowly targeted advertising to a captive audience likely works to some extent but it's rare that an advertiser is ever able to get that. Something like a sports stadium where almost everyone there is a sports fan and can't mute to Jumbotron advertising to them is the closest most advertisers get. In Amazon's case, they have not only an extremely narrowly targeted audience but also one that's extremely captive to seeing the message.

ModernMech 5y ago
Not only that, most advertisers don't have control over their target's income and healthcare. When someone in control of your life like that tells you they really really don't want you to do something, a lot of people tend to listen.

kyrra 5y ago

Employees there were getting advertisements in both directions though, right?

marricks 5y ago
What a vague way to put it, but of course, sure, there was a unionizing effort. I think an interesting example of how powerful Amazon is is that changed traffic light timing to inhibit the unionizing effort[1] [1] https://www.theverge.com/2021/2/17/22287191/amazon-alabama-warehouse-union-traffic-light-change-bessemer https://www.theverge.com/2021/2/17/22287191/amazon-alabama-w...
tedivm 5y ago
There's a difference between putting up a flyer telling people their rights, and having them sit through hours of video as part of their actual job. Scale matters.
dhosek 5y ago
The employer can make employees sit through anti-union presentations. The union does not have equivalent access to the employees. There are also borderline illegal practices like saying that unionization might lead the company to shut down the facility.¹ ⸻ 1. Employers are prohibited from saying that they will fire people who vote for unionization but they are allowed to say that they might shut down a shop that votes for a union. Interestingly, while this is a frequent threat, the instances of an employer ever actually following through are vanishingly small.
- AnthonyMouse 5y ago
  > Interestingly, while this is a frequent threat, the instances of an employer ever actually following through are vanishingly small. The more common occurrence is for the employer to let the union go on strike. Then the employer keeps the shop open by hiring new workers from outside the union and lets the union stay on strike forever. Obviously the effect on the union workers is basically the same.
  - 5y ago

grlass 5y ago

> I'm sure trillion dollar companies can pay for the best knowledge on union busting. Indeed, Amazon have used the Pinkerton detective agency [1] against their employees to root out union activity. For those unfamiliar, the Pinkertons have existed in the US since the 1850s, with a history fraught with violence and questionable ethics, famously the Homestead strike of 1892 [2]. [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-pinkerton-spies-worker-labor-unions-2020-11?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-pinkerton-spies-worke... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_strike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_strike

malfist 5y ago
I did a research paper back in college on the homestead strike and haymarket riots. Strange to see Pinkerton is still around and unchanged.