4 ms·

To be absolutely fair, if you grew up before optical audio (or in my case grew up seeing a lot of pre-optical audio media), 24 fps is odd. Before 24fps , frame

by dagmx 5y ago

To be absolutely fair, if you grew up before optical audio (or in my case grew up seeing a lot of pre-optical audio media), 24 fps is odd. Before 24fps , frame rates differed anywhere down from 12 up to the 40s. Then there's animation. If you watch a lot of anime (on threes - 8fps minimum) or Western animation (on twos so 12fps minimum), 24 again doesn't hold any magical value. Personally, I prefer higher frame rates for the one reason that so many inexperienced cinematographers will not account for strobing in 24fps camera movements. Auto interpolated TV is crap though. I hate it. I can always see the artifacts and the issue is that it messes with the motion. When I worked in animation, you'd see someone reviewing content and forget to disable motion interpolation. All your movement is soft, because the TV doesn't know what an impact looks like. So any foot step will get smoothed out. It totally ruins the character

dahart 5y ago
I usually have to turn off interpolation too, I also hate it, but whenever I do I end up cringing at the horizontal pans. :P Interpolation does wonderfully good things to horizontal pans, but terrible things to action sequences. A difficult tradeoff. > Then there’s animation. Random side note, but I never appreciated how well animators leverage variable frame rates, mixing ones, twos, and threes, until I watched an ex-Disney animator hand-animate a sequence in person. The pauses on threes and flashes of fast motion on ones adds a lot of character that I never really noticed when just watching cartoons as a kid. And yes, interpolation smooshes this into a muddy mess.
snovv_crash 5y ago
I wonder if there is a motion interpolation version of something like an edge preserving smoothing filter. In 2D image processing these are used extensively.
- dagmx 5y ago
  Some TVs do a pretty good job of interpolating the actual lines in 2D media. The issue is almost always down to the motion though. Imagine a ball bounce. When it hits the ground, the amount of time it stays on the ground and the deformation it makes, is how an animator signals to the viewer what the ball is made off. With a character who has personality, their walk cycle shows you their personality, and that ground to foot impact is super important. However with interpolation, even if they preserve the distinct edges well, they'll smooth out that motion. So what was meant to be a hard hit, will suddenly be soft. What was meant to be a big brute, will feel like a balloon.
  - snovv_crash 5y ago
    Yes, I understood that. What I was wondering is if the motion interpolation could be designed to 'understand' the sharp edges in the motion profile, much like the 2D smoothing is able to preserve edges even when blurring. At this point it would probably be easier to do it with some kind of DNN motion interpolation...
    - dahart 5y ago
      Doesn’t basic MPEG preserve edges automatically, as long as the motion interp doesn’t cross too many frames? I thought the idea with most motion block compression schemes was to essentially have tiled flow vectors that slide the source block a little while preserving the internal structure?

by dagmx 5y ago

dahart 5y ago

I usually have to turn off interpolation too, I also hate it, but whenever I do I end up cringing at the horizontal pans. :P Interpolation does wonderfully good things to horizontal pans, but terrible things to action sequences. A difficult tradeoff. > Then there’s animation. Random side note, but I never appreciated how well animators leverage variable frame rates, mixing ones, twos, and threes, until I watched an ex-Disney animator hand-animate a sequence in person. The pauses on threes and flashes of fast motion on ones adds a lot of character that I never really noticed when just watching cartoons as a kid. And yes, interpolation smooshes this into a muddy mess.

snovv_crash 5y ago

I wonder if there is a motion interpolation version of something like an edge preserving smoothing filter. In 2D image processing these are used extensively.

dagmx 5y ago
Some TVs do a pretty good job of interpolating the actual lines in 2D media. The issue is almost always down to the motion though. Imagine a ball bounce. When it hits the ground, the amount of time it stays on the ground and the deformation it makes, is how an animator signals to the viewer what the ball is made off. With a character who has personality, their walk cycle shows you their personality, and that ground to foot impact is super important. However with interpolation, even if they preserve the distinct edges well, they'll smooth out that motion. So what was meant to be a hard hit, will suddenly be soft. What was meant to be a big brute, will feel like a balloon.
- snovv_crash 5y ago
  Yes, I understood that. What I was wondering is if the motion interpolation could be designed to 'understand' the sharp edges in the motion profile, much like the 2D smoothing is able to preserve edges even when blurring. At this point it would probably be easier to do it with some kind of DNN motion interpolation...
  - dahart 5y ago
    Doesn’t basic MPEG preserve edges automatically, as long as the motion interp doesn’t cross too many frames? I thought the idea with most motion block compression schemes was to essentially have tiled flow vectors that slide the source block a little while preserving the internal structure?