5 ms·

LinkedIn is pretty good, however I really do hate the photos. The main reason we don't have photos on resumes in the West, is because it opens you up to discrim

LinkedIn is pretty good, however I really do hate the photos. The main reason we don't have photos on resumes in the West, is because it opens you up to discrimination. My physical appearance should have nothing to do with my hireabilty I also very much hate how people keep trying to turn it into Facebook. Stop it. Get your validation somewhere else. Now with that said, I've found almost all of my recent jobs via LinkedIn. It's the first place I go when I look for work. Recruiters will hit you up once you have at least a few years of experience.

victor9000 5y ago
If the photos are a big concern then why not use an avatar? They seem to be somewhat popular these days.
jstx1 5y ago
On the photos, LinkedIn is a way to discover jobs/people/companies. You aren't submitting your photo when applying for a job.
- 999900000999 5y ago
  When recruiters search for candidates they definitely see photos. Photos which should have absolutely nothing to with finding a job
  - jstx1 5y ago
    I think you're overestimating it. Recruiters usually use LinkedIn's tools to send automated messages to people based on some criteria (years of experience, current job title, location etc). They aren't sifting through profiles and judging people, least of all based on their profile pictures. And the way you look affects hiring anyway - at some point you'll have to talk to someone over video or in person.
    - bogwog 5y ago
      > And the way you look affects hiring anyway - at some point you'll have to talk to someone over video or in person. The problem is that you probably won't get that far if an employer doesn't like the color of your skin, your gender, that you're in a wheelchair, etc. Your resume will probably go in the trash as soon as they see your photo. But if you can at least get into an interview, you have an opportunity to sell yourself as a candidate.
      - jstx1 5y ago
        I really doubt that anyone's interviewing skills are so good that they can cure the interviewer's racism. The problem itself is real of course, I just don't think that having or not having a profile picture will make any difference. And there's other factors too - do I need to hide my name so I don't give away that I'm from a foreign country or that I'm a woman? I don't want to pretend that I have a solution for racism/sexism/etc. in hiring but I really don't think that tiptoeing around people's prejudices is the way to do it.
        ghaff 5y ago
        The same thing probably applies to ageism. Sure, you can tap dance around putting a lot of specific dates on your resume. But generally it's pretty obvious within a decade or so. And, if you really go whole hog and don't even put any durations, you probably don't want to look like you're maybe just out of school if you've just had a couple long duration jobs--and the company's application form will probably make you fill in dates anyway.
        vxNsr 5y ago
        To each their own, but my mom who is nearly 60 and still enjoys working, had good experience with just removing the years from her college and like her first 4 jobs.
        ghaff 5y ago
  - hef19898 5y ago
    That's an issue. I am so in favor of not providing a birthdate or picture in job applications. But then I like LinkedIn as recruiting tool, which has a picture and more often than not a birthdate... Not sure what to make of it.
  - ingvul 5y ago
    Everything matters. Given two more or less skilled candidates, I guess if one looks like Brad Pitt, well, that's something no? Or if someone has a really nice voice, that has to count for something. Perhaps the company is thinking in terms "oh, candidate 2 has a magnificent voice! If we ever present tech conferences, he will do great!" This is not a world where "only your brain" matters. If you have brain and a decent surface (i.e., face, body, voice, manners) then you'll beat the ones who "only" have brain.
donkeyd 5y ago
> I also very much hate how people keep trying to turn it into Facebook. Stop it. Get your validation somewhere else. > It's the first place I go when I look for work. Recruiters will hit you up once you have at least a few years of experience. I have the exact same experience. I try to ignore the news feed as much as possible because it became a Covid flame war. To me, it is no longer a 'Business oriented social network', I now use it as a glorified job board with resume profiles.
ChuckNorris89 5y ago
>The main reason we don't have photos on resumes in the West In the US, UK etc. yes, but in Germany and DACH region, employers still expect a photo in the traditional resume, especially for non-tech/skilled positions or in more traditional companies (Audi, BMW, etc.). Heard it's the same in southern Europe. Still irks me that they haven't outlawed this yet. But I don't think things would improve much if they did though, as if an employer wants to not hire you because of your race/gender/nationality etc, it can do it anyway in a later stage, with some cookie-cutter excuse, regardless of photo/no-photo in your resume.
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  France tried the complete opposite (making resumes completely anonymous) and considered making that the law everywhere. When they tried it, it had the opposite effect of what they expected (hires became less diverse). https://www.povertyactionlab.org/evaluation/discrimination-hiring-and-anonymous-cvs-france-cv-anonymes https://www.povertyactionlab.org/evaluation/discrimination-h...
  - Frazmatazz 5y ago
    "They also found that participating firms attached less importance to interrupted work histories or other negative signals for minority candidates. This suggests that anonymizing resumes may have made it more difficult for employers that were originally more favorable to minority candidates, to identify these candidates, and to assess their application in light of the adverse employment conditions many of them face." That makes sense. It's sort of like how I wouldn't expect someone from Kentucky to have the same internship opportunities as someone from the bay area, but if I cant see their location then all I have to go off of is the listed experience.
- Frazmatazz 5y ago
  "if an employer wants to not hire you because of your race/gender/nationality etc, it can do it anyway in a later stage" First, you're increasing the probability of discrimination by making it possible earlier on. The number of people that could exclude you goes up; e.g. the initial, possibly external, recruiter (who is screening hundreds of candidates) who would never otherwise have seen your face, can now discriminate on appearance. Secondly, people are less discriminatory to people they've actually met and gotten to know somewhat. A picture of an anonymous person, with very little other information to go off of, may affect someone's judgement quite strongly; whereas, when you actually meet and talk with someone, have a lot of other information about them, and they are no longer anonymous, physical appearance will have less influence.
kwertyoowiyop 5y ago
LinkedIn as Facebook: OMG yes. I’d love to have a filter that removes all posts containing: proud, excited, thrilled, humbled, awesome. Also, anything related to politics on either side.
- cvhashim 5y ago
  Sounds like a business opportunity ;)
  - oojuliuso 5y ago
    I fear any upstart LinkedIn competitor sans social would just become another LinkedIn over time. Just don’t see the incentives for entering the professional networking space.
    - cvhashim 5y ago
      Was thinking more of something like an extension that hides certain activities or filters it out.
  - aero-glide2 5y ago
    Good browser addon idea
- bonniemuffin 5y ago
  There's a new setting rolling out to let you choose to filter political content out of your linkedin feed, if you want. https://www.linkedin.com/help/linkedin/answer/134715 https://www.linkedin.com/help/linkedin/answer/134715
tester34 5y ago
I will play devil for lulz: >My physical appearance should have nothing to do with my hireabilty but actually why? you know - if you have two equally skilled people... and one of them has tattoos on 90% of his/her body and your company works for banking industry, then is it pros or con?
- Quikinterp 5y ago
  as a software developer? It shouldn't matter. People shouldn't be discriminated for something like tattoos. Especially when software related stuff isn't as customer-facing as an actual bank teller
- burnished 5y ago
  You haven't really played devils advocate, you've just suggested a completely straightforward example that demonstrates why we'd rather not have the pictures as part of the hiring process.
  - CountDrewku 5y ago
    Are you suggesting the employer never sees your face? This response makes no sense. They will see you at some point in the process regardless of whether it's on linkedin or in person at the interview. Physical appearance is part of life, it's no more discriminatory than refusing to hire stupid or mentally deficient people.
    - burnished 5y ago
      I'm suggesting that if our goal is to hire people based on their merits we should limit the extent that well understood bias influences the process.
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  > you know - if you have two equally skilled people... and one of them has tattoos on 90% of his/her body and your company works for banking industry, then is it pros or con? It's a huge pro. "Wow, they hired him despite the stigma around his looks in our hugely conservative business, he's that good." Same thing with hiring a non-minority candidate from a school that's known to do a lot of affirmative action, you know he's there for the right reasons.
ramesh31 5y ago
>LinkedIn is pretty good, however I really do hate the photos. The main reason we don't have photos on resumes in the West, is because it opens you up to discrimination. My physical appearance should have nothing to do with my hireabilty I think this can go both ways. As a black person, I honestly prefer when people reach out to me via Linkedin because I at least know they are aware of my race ahead of time. I've had plenty of interviews where, because I have a white name and sound and act white over the phone, people have treated me completely differently after meeting in person. I'd rather just be able to be up front about it.
burnished 5y ago
The social media aspects of the platform ruin it for me. I left Facebook years ago, so going to LinkedIn and getting that same experience is sort of awful. Its all adversity porn posts or reaction-bait.
- distances 5y ago
  You can completely ignore the feed. Even can hide it with uBlock if you're so inclined. I use LinkedIn just as a messaging platform for recruiters to contact me.
Nextgrid 5y ago
You can use LinkedIn as purely a profile/online resume and as a way to message potential opportunities. Do not look at the news feed, do not "engage" with anything else beyond your profile, connection requests and inbox.
CountDrewku 5y ago
>My physical appearance should have nothing to do with my hireabilty I don't necessarily agree. There are jobs where appearance is important, especially customer facing ones. And I'm sure I'll catch flak for this but if you're obese, slovenly, or unhealthy looking that kinda has to factor in. I would certainly question how well you could handle a job if you can't even handle your personal life. Discrimination sucks but it's just a reality. Everyone does it, and sometimes it's a necessary "evil". I think if you've got good resume showing your aptitude most places are going to care less about your appearance. Besides, they're going to see your face in the interview anyway. So, if you think your appearance is causing companies to avoid you they're not going to suddenly change when you show up for the interview and you're probably just wasting your time.
- throwaway4220 5y ago
  Obesity and income are related. Curly hair can be considered unkempt. Discrimination (hopefully) is a small percentage of most of our lives, but it is real. Black hands holding a product in a craigslist ad gets fewer hits. If you're a racist and buy a bicycle, get there and the guy is black, you'd probably still buy it, because you're already there

victor9000 5y ago

If the photos are a big concern then why not use an avatar? They seem to be somewhat popular these days.

jstx1 5y ago

On the photos, LinkedIn is a way to discover jobs/people/companies. You aren't submitting your photo when applying for a job.

999900000999 5y ago
When recruiters search for candidates they definitely see photos. Photos which should have absolutely nothing to with finding a job
- jstx1 5y ago
  I think you're overestimating it. Recruiters usually use LinkedIn's tools to send automated messages to people based on some criteria (years of experience, current job title, location etc). They aren't sifting through profiles and judging people, least of all based on their profile pictures. And the way you look affects hiring anyway - at some point you'll have to talk to someone over video or in person.
  - bogwog 5y ago
    > And the way you look affects hiring anyway - at some point you'll have to talk to someone over video or in person. The problem is that you probably won't get that far if an employer doesn't like the color of your skin, your gender, that you're in a wheelchair, etc. Your resume will probably go in the trash as soon as they see your photo. But if you can at least get into an interview, you have an opportunity to sell yourself as a candidate.
    - jstx1 5y ago
      I really doubt that anyone's interviewing skills are so good that they can cure the interviewer's racism. The problem itself is real of course, I just don't think that having or not having a profile picture will make any difference. And there's other factors too - do I need to hide my name so I don't give away that I'm from a foreign country or that I'm a woman? I don't want to pretend that I have a solution for racism/sexism/etc. in hiring but I really don't think that tiptoeing around people's prejudices is the way to do it.
      - ghaff 5y ago
        The same thing probably applies to ageism. Sure, you can tap dance around putting a lot of specific dates on your resume. But generally it's pretty obvious within a decade or so. And, if you really go whole hog and don't even put any durations, you probably don't want to look like you're maybe just out of school if you've just had a couple long duration jobs--and the company's application form will probably make you fill in dates anyway.
        vxNsr 5y ago
        To each their own, but my mom who is nearly 60 and still enjoys working, had good experience with just removing the years from her college and like her first 4 jobs.
        ghaff 5y ago
- hef19898 5y ago
  That's an issue. I am so in favor of not providing a birthdate or picture in job applications. But then I like LinkedIn as recruiting tool, which has a picture and more often than not a birthdate... Not sure what to make of it.
- ingvul 5y ago
  Everything matters. Given two more or less skilled candidates, I guess if one looks like Brad Pitt, well, that's something no? Or if someone has a really nice voice, that has to count for something. Perhaps the company is thinking in terms "oh, candidate 2 has a magnificent voice! If we ever present tech conferences, he will do great!" This is not a world where "only your brain" matters. If you have brain and a decent surface (i.e., face, body, voice, manners) then you'll beat the ones who "only" have brain.

donkeyd 5y ago

> I also very much hate how people keep trying to turn it into Facebook. Stop it. Get your validation somewhere else. > It's the first place I go when I look for work. Recruiters will hit you up once you have at least a few years of experience. I have the exact same experience. I try to ignore the news feed as much as possible because it became a Covid flame war. To me, it is no longer a 'Business oriented social network', I now use it as a glorified job board with resume profiles.

ChuckNorris89 5y ago

>The main reason we don't have photos on resumes in the West In the US, UK etc. yes, but in Germany and DACH region, employers still expect a photo in the traditional resume, especially for non-tech/skilled positions or in more traditional companies (Audi, BMW, etc.). Heard it's the same in southern Europe. Still irks me that they haven't outlawed this yet. But I don't think things would improve much if they did though, as if an employer wants to not hire you because of your race/gender/nationality etc, it can do it anyway in a later stage, with some cookie-cutter excuse, regardless of photo/no-photo in your resume.

908B64B197 5y ago
France tried the complete opposite (making resumes completely anonymous) and considered making that the law everywhere. When they tried it, it had the opposite effect of what they expected (hires became less diverse). https://www.povertyactionlab.org/evaluation/discrimination-hiring-and-anonymous-cvs-france-cv-anonymes https://www.povertyactionlab.org/evaluation/discrimination-h...
- Frazmatazz 5y ago
  "They also found that participating firms attached less importance to interrupted work histories or other negative signals for minority candidates. This suggests that anonymizing resumes may have made it more difficult for employers that were originally more favorable to minority candidates, to identify these candidates, and to assess their application in light of the adverse employment conditions many of them face." That makes sense. It's sort of like how I wouldn't expect someone from Kentucky to have the same internship opportunities as someone from the bay area, but if I cant see their location then all I have to go off of is the listed experience.
Frazmatazz 5y ago
"if an employer wants to not hire you because of your race/gender/nationality etc, it can do it anyway in a later stage" First, you're increasing the probability of discrimination by making it possible earlier on. The number of people that could exclude you goes up; e.g. the initial, possibly external, recruiter (who is screening hundreds of candidates) who would never otherwise have seen your face, can now discriminate on appearance. Secondly, people are less discriminatory to people they've actually met and gotten to know somewhat. A picture of an anonymous person, with very little other information to go off of, may affect someone's judgement quite strongly; whereas, when you actually meet and talk with someone, have a lot of other information about them, and they are no longer anonymous, physical appearance will have less influence.

kwertyoowiyop 5y ago

LinkedIn as Facebook: OMG yes. I’d love to have a filter that removes all posts containing: proud, excited, thrilled, humbled, awesome. Also, anything related to politics on either side.

cvhashim 5y ago
Sounds like a business opportunity ;)
- oojuliuso 5y ago
  I fear any upstart LinkedIn competitor sans social would just become another LinkedIn over time. Just don’t see the incentives for entering the professional networking space.
  - cvhashim 5y ago
    Was thinking more of something like an extension that hides certain activities or filters it out.
- aero-glide2 5y ago
  Good browser addon idea
bonniemuffin 5y ago
There's a new setting rolling out to let you choose to filter political content out of your linkedin feed, if you want. https://www.linkedin.com/help/linkedin/answer/134715 https://www.linkedin.com/help/linkedin/answer/134715

tester34 5y ago

I will play devil for lulz: >My physical appearance should have nothing to do with my hireabilty but actually why? you know - if you have two equally skilled people... and one of them has tattoos on 90% of his/her body and your company works for banking industry, then is it pros or con?

Quikinterp 5y ago
as a software developer? It shouldn't matter. People shouldn't be discriminated for something like tattoos. Especially when software related stuff isn't as customer-facing as an actual bank teller
burnished 5y ago
You haven't really played devils advocate, you've just suggested a completely straightforward example that demonstrates why we'd rather not have the pictures as part of the hiring process.
- CountDrewku 5y ago
  Are you suggesting the employer never sees your face? This response makes no sense. They will see you at some point in the process regardless of whether it's on linkedin or in person at the interview. Physical appearance is part of life, it's no more discriminatory than refusing to hire stupid or mentally deficient people.
  - burnished 5y ago
    I'm suggesting that if our goal is to hire people based on their merits we should limit the extent that well understood bias influences the process.
908B64B197 5y ago
> you know - if you have two equally skilled people... and one of them has tattoos on 90% of his/her body and your company works for banking industry, then is it pros or con? It's a huge pro. "Wow, they hired him despite the stigma around his looks in our hugely conservative business, he's that good." Same thing with hiring a non-minority candidate from a school that's known to do a lot of affirmative action, you know he's there for the right reasons.

ramesh31 5y ago

>LinkedIn is pretty good, however I really do hate the photos. The main reason we don't have photos on resumes in the West, is because it opens you up to discrimination. My physical appearance should have nothing to do with my hireabilty I think this can go both ways. As a black person, I honestly prefer when people reach out to me via Linkedin because I at least know they are aware of my race ahead of time. I've had plenty of interviews where, because I have a white name and sound and act white over the phone, people have treated me completely differently after meeting in person. I'd rather just be able to be up front about it.

burnished 5y ago

The social media aspects of the platform ruin it for me. I left Facebook years ago, so going to LinkedIn and getting that same experience is sort of awful. Its all adversity porn posts or reaction-bait.

distances 5y ago
You can completely ignore the feed. Even can hide it with uBlock if you're so inclined. I use LinkedIn just as a messaging platform for recruiters to contact me.

Nextgrid 5y ago

You can use LinkedIn as purely a profile/online resume and as a way to message potential opportunities. Do not look at the news feed, do not "engage" with anything else beyond your profile, connection requests and inbox.

CountDrewku 5y ago

>My physical appearance should have nothing to do with my hireabilty I don't necessarily agree. There are jobs where appearance is important, especially customer facing ones. And I'm sure I'll catch flak for this but if you're obese, slovenly, or unhealthy looking that kinda has to factor in. I would certainly question how well you could handle a job if you can't even handle your personal life. Discrimination sucks but it's just a reality. Everyone does it, and sometimes it's a necessary "evil". I think if you've got good resume showing your aptitude most places are going to care less about your appearance. Besides, they're going to see your face in the interview anyway. So, if you think your appearance is causing companies to avoid you they're not going to suddenly change when you show up for the interview and you're probably just wasting your time.

throwaway4220 5y ago
Obesity and income are related. Curly hair can be considered unkempt. Discrimination (hopefully) is a small percentage of most of our lives, but it is real. Black hands holding a product in a craigslist ad gets fewer hits. If you're a racist and buy a bicycle, get there and the guy is black, you'd probably still buy it, because you're already there