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Re-shoring something like electronics manufacturing is going to be quite difficult for those countries that outsourced it all to China. For starters, you need

Re-shoring something like electronics manufacturing is going to be quite difficult for those countries that outsourced it all to China. For starters, you need factories i.e. physical buildings. Pick and place machines, machine shops for making precision plastic moulds, the trained personnel to run them and re-shoring all the knowledge for how things work and how to keep them working. The entire supply chain for electronic components will also have to be re-shored as well. A lot of that depends on a local network effect (why Hong Kong was successful and why Shenzhen is successful). In Australia we still have small pockets of electronic manufacturing (most of which was decimated by Japanese imports in the 1970s) so we are 50+ years from when things like that were routinely made here and rebuilding that is not going to happen at the stroke of a pen, it's going to require a lot of investment. That is something governments used to do quite well but the neo-liberal political movement not only killed manufacturing in this country, but also makes it impossible to restart it. It costs me 1/10th of the price to have our circuit board made in China compared to the quotes I had from Australian factories. That is the kind of price difference that would kill my product stone dead.

monocasa 5y ago
Plastic injection molding tool design especially. It's not just capital intensive, but one of the deepest black arts I was adjacent to in my robotics days. I'm not sure I see a way to reshore that knowledge at any scale worth talking about without massive economic problems in the west. The way to learn (like any black art) is to start with simple designs and take on more and more complicated work, but the simplest designs are the ones with the lowest margins and the least worth reshoring. : \ Maybe the whole field changes with 3d metal printing getting cheaper allowing more experimentation by individuals and reducing the barrier to the field?
- varjag 5y ago
  It sure takes talent (like in most technology endeavours) but it still can be found in good old Europe. Our Lithuanian ME contractor is nothing but stellar. However his career path was not trickle up from 3D printing but a traditional engineering school.
- smackeyacky 5y ago
  I don't know how that is going to play out. The metal 3D printer I have seen was quite incredible with the things that could be made out of stainless steel powder but the price of them doesn't seem to be coming down at the rate we normally expect with electronics. I guess once somebody works out how to do it as a desk-side or small factory, high volume situation it might turn things around pretty rapidly on a precision injection mould but there is little incentive to develop such a thing while we still have access to the chinese market, even for complex moulds. You're right about injection mould design being a dark art, there is so much to be concerned about that just getting something to fall out of the mould cleanly might as well be magic.
- seibelj 5y ago
  Western countries need to infiltrate their factories and steal their schematics and technologies.
  - monocasa 5y ago
    Lol, you joke, but it's not like we're above that if push comes to shove. The trouble with a black art though is that it's hard to get the gist of what's going on just from what's written down.
    - vineyardmike 5y ago
      The joke is that’s largely what happened when the west brought their tech to china
  - Nasrudith 5y ago
    The first world uses their living conditions and high pay for that instead mostly - just give the right people worker visas. Most of the actual nationally conducted industrial espionage involved export controlled military industrial complex linked bits. Business intelligence meanwhile is more about reverse engineering and observation while not crossing the red line into illegality. Things like deducing the state of thejr competitors by the number of cars in their lots at what time of day - "more cars at odd hours and weekends may hint at a frenzied rush and that they may be running behind schedule".
    - PradeetPatel 5y ago
      Modern business intelligence practices definitely borrow techniques well established fields such as OSINT and HUMINT, often bordering the life of illegality but never crossing it. As someone who works in the reputation management industry, we often monitor major social media platforms for keywords and conduct sentiment analysis on individuals of interest. This is done with the intention of ensuring the correct narratives are understood by the public, and to ascertain potential internal threat actors/whistleblowers before they embark on their mission.
- deepnotderp 5y ago
  Just want to underscore this point. The ability to produce complex molds quickly and cheaply is a huge advantage for China. Metal 3D printing however may indeed be a potential game changer here.
  - raverbashing 5y ago
    I wonder what exactly are their competitive advantage there Materials cost? Salaries? Cheap CNC machines? Several mechanical engineers on call with long shifts?
    - dotancohen 5y ago
      Experience. The whole world is currently offshoring this work to Chinese firms who already have the experience.
    - deepnotderp 5y ago
      Has it ever occurred to you that the answer might be that they’re just better at it than us due to decades of experience at scale? Not to pick on you in particular, I see this sentiment a lot. China is no longer cheap labor, their dominance in manufacturing is due to expertise.
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  > The way to learn (like any black art) is to start with simple designs and take on more and more complicated work, but the simplest designs are the ones with the lowest margins and the least worth reshoring. : \ We could skip that step by hiring experts from foreign manufacturers. Pretty sure they would prefer USD over what they are making now (judging by the outflow of capital from Asia to the west).
  - klyrs 5y ago
    We could, if immigration wasn't a political poison pill
    - 908B64B197 5y ago
      We're talking about a few highly qualified individuals in strategic industries. And there's nothing preventing the addition of a "mentoring" clause where they have to train Americans with these technologies. Operation paperclip would be a good place to look for an historical precedent.

monocasa 5y ago

Plastic injection molding tool design especially. It's not just capital intensive, but one of the deepest black arts I was adjacent to in my robotics days. I'm not sure I see a way to reshore that knowledge at any scale worth talking about without massive economic problems in the west. The way to learn (like any black art) is to start with simple designs and take on more and more complicated work, but the simplest designs are the ones with the lowest margins and the least worth reshoring. : \ Maybe the whole field changes with 3d metal printing getting cheaper allowing more experimentation by individuals and reducing the barrier to the field?

varjag 5y ago
It sure takes talent (like in most technology endeavours) but it still can be found in good old Europe. Our Lithuanian ME contractor is nothing but stellar. However his career path was not trickle up from 3D printing but a traditional engineering school.
smackeyacky 5y ago
I don't know how that is going to play out. The metal 3D printer I have seen was quite incredible with the things that could be made out of stainless steel powder but the price of them doesn't seem to be coming down at the rate we normally expect with electronics. I guess once somebody works out how to do it as a desk-side or small factory, high volume situation it might turn things around pretty rapidly on a precision injection mould but there is little incentive to develop such a thing while we still have access to the chinese market, even for complex moulds. You're right about injection mould design being a dark art, there is so much to be concerned about that just getting something to fall out of the mould cleanly might as well be magic.
seibelj 5y ago
Western countries need to infiltrate their factories and steal their schematics and technologies.
- monocasa 5y ago
  Lol, you joke, but it's not like we're above that if push comes to shove. The trouble with a black art though is that it's hard to get the gist of what's going on just from what's written down.
  - vineyardmike 5y ago
    The joke is that’s largely what happened when the west brought their tech to china
- Nasrudith 5y ago
  The first world uses their living conditions and high pay for that instead mostly - just give the right people worker visas. Most of the actual nationally conducted industrial espionage involved export controlled military industrial complex linked bits. Business intelligence meanwhile is more about reverse engineering and observation while not crossing the red line into illegality. Things like deducing the state of thejr competitors by the number of cars in their lots at what time of day - "more cars at odd hours and weekends may hint at a frenzied rush and that they may be running behind schedule".
  - PradeetPatel 5y ago
    Modern business intelligence practices definitely borrow techniques well established fields such as OSINT and HUMINT, often bordering the life of illegality but never crossing it. As someone who works in the reputation management industry, we often monitor major social media platforms for keywords and conduct sentiment analysis on individuals of interest. This is done with the intention of ensuring the correct narratives are understood by the public, and to ascertain potential internal threat actors/whistleblowers before they embark on their mission.
deepnotderp 5y ago
Just want to underscore this point. The ability to produce complex molds quickly and cheaply is a huge advantage for China. Metal 3D printing however may indeed be a potential game changer here.
- raverbashing 5y ago
  I wonder what exactly are their competitive advantage there Materials cost? Salaries? Cheap CNC machines? Several mechanical engineers on call with long shifts?
  - dotancohen 5y ago
    Experience. The whole world is currently offshoring this work to Chinese firms who already have the experience.
  - deepnotderp 5y ago
    Has it ever occurred to you that the answer might be that they’re just better at it than us due to decades of experience at scale? Not to pick on you in particular, I see this sentiment a lot. China is no longer cheap labor, their dominance in manufacturing is due to expertise.
908B64B197 5y ago
> The way to learn (like any black art) is to start with simple designs and take on more and more complicated work, but the simplest designs are the ones with the lowest margins and the least worth reshoring. : \ We could skip that step by hiring experts from foreign manufacturers. Pretty sure they would prefer USD over what they are making now (judging by the outflow of capital from Asia to the west).
- klyrs 5y ago
  We could, if immigration wasn't a political poison pill
  - 908B64B197 5y ago
    We're talking about a few highly qualified individuals in strategic industries. And there's nothing preventing the addition of a "mentoring" clause where they have to train Americans with these technologies. Operation paperclip would be a good place to look for an historical precedent.