4 ms·

How much of that, especially in Europe, is simply a way to bypass the ever increasing burden of regulations around employment?

goodpoint 5y ago
Close to none. Companies love to have employees.
fnord77 5y ago
In Sweden, many software engineers work as contract engineers for better pay. Salaries for hired software engineers in Europe are dismal.
- bilekas 5y ago
  > Salaries for hired software engineers in Europe are dismal I strongly disagree, it might be all relative of course, but dismal is not a word that would even come close.
  - mcv 5y ago
    No, they're still solid jobs compared to what lots of other people get paid. But managers and other corporate types still get paid a lot more. And self-employed, you can also get paid that much, just not as an employee.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
deleted 5y ago
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verelo 5y ago
That question really makes it sound like you have an agenda.
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  Many Europeans told me they preferred hiring contractors early on because the potential cost of a bad hire was just too much for a startup.
  - bilekas 5y ago
    For a startup you probably don't have the capital / financial support to ensure redundancy packages etc. If you need someone to come in on your greenfield project and hit the ground running, thats what contractors are usually used for; the beginning and the end of the lifecycle.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
jorisboris 5y ago
In Belgium, once you reach a certain pay (roughly from 100k euros yearly onwards), it reduces tax burden for employer and employee when employees become independent contractors.
- davidgay 5y ago
  In the US, IIUC, the IRS won't let you (employer, employee) do that.
  - mcv 5y ago
    The Dutch tax service keeps trying to figure out new rules of how to distinguish between true self-employed people and fake self-employeds who basically function as regular employees, but without the rights and benefits of employees. This is mainly meant to protect excessive exploitation of low-paid (gig-economy) workers, but it certainly limits my options as well. I'm self-employed and tend to work for a single client at a time, usually on projects of between half a year and two years. I work on a team with employees, doing similar work, except I'm more empowered, more in control of my own way of working (also because the tax service demands that, which is good in this case). I'm not being exploited the way employees or gig workers are. And if the government thinks this is some kind of tax loophole, I'd happily pay more tax, as long as I can continue working this way.
bilekas 5y ago
It really doesn't have too much with regulations etc usually. For engineers for example, you will earn higher income and pay less tax, different rates. And larger companies usually have a set asside budget for contractors. Its easier as an engineer as its never hard to find another job. If this wasn't the case, you would see a higher percentage of employees who require job securoty. Nothing to do with regulation from my experience, just better pay and more flexibility.
smus 5y ago
That whooshing sound is the goal posts moving

goodpoint 5y ago

Close to none. Companies love to have employees.

fnord77 5y ago

In Sweden, many software engineers work as contract engineers for better pay. Salaries for hired software engineers in Europe are dismal.

bilekas 5y ago
> Salaries for hired software engineers in Europe are dismal I strongly disagree, it might be all relative of course, but dismal is not a word that would even come close.
- mcv 5y ago
  No, they're still solid jobs compared to what lots of other people get paid. But managers and other corporate types still get paid a lot more. And self-employed, you can also get paid that much, just not as an employee.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

verelo 5y ago

That question really makes it sound like you have an agenda.

908B64B197 5y ago
Many Europeans told me they preferred hiring contractors early on because the potential cost of a bad hire was just too much for a startup.
- bilekas 5y ago
  For a startup you probably don't have the capital / financial support to ensure redundancy packages etc. If you need someone to come in on your greenfield project and hit the ground running, thats what contractors are usually used for; the beginning and the end of the lifecycle.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

jorisboris 5y ago

In Belgium, once you reach a certain pay (roughly from 100k euros yearly onwards), it reduces tax burden for employer and employee when employees become independent contractors.

davidgay 5y ago
In the US, IIUC, the IRS won't let you (employer, employee) do that.
- mcv 5y ago
  The Dutch tax service keeps trying to figure out new rules of how to distinguish between true self-employed people and fake self-employeds who basically function as regular employees, but without the rights and benefits of employees. This is mainly meant to protect excessive exploitation of low-paid (gig-economy) workers, but it certainly limits my options as well. I'm self-employed and tend to work for a single client at a time, usually on projects of between half a year and two years. I work on a team with employees, doing similar work, except I'm more empowered, more in control of my own way of working (also because the tax service demands that, which is good in this case). I'm not being exploited the way employees or gig workers are. And if the government thinks this is some kind of tax loophole, I'd happily pay more tax, as long as I can continue working this way.

bilekas 5y ago

It really doesn't have too much with regulations etc usually. For engineers for example, you will earn higher income and pay less tax, different rates. And larger companies usually have a set asside budget for contractors. Its easier as an engineer as its never hard to find another job. If this wasn't the case, you would see a higher percentage of employees who require job securoty. Nothing to do with regulation from my experience, just better pay and more flexibility.

smus 5y ago

That whooshing sound is the goal posts moving