13 ms·

The Essence operating system at Handmade Seattle 2021 [video]

130 points by abnercoimbre 5y ago

8bitsrule 5y ago
So far it looks great (except for the gnomish minimalism). I'll take a longer look when that blinding white theme the demo uses is changed to dark. (A nice feature that most OS's have.)
yhzbro 5y ago
AMAZING OS , i want it to go mainstream and have Apps and Games written for it
Flankk 5y ago
Using the window as the application launcher is genius. Tabbed windows at the OS level is also great. I'm honestly blown away by this.
- jeremyevans 5y ago
  If you're using X, the fluxbox window manager supports tabbed windows: http://fluxbox.org/ http://fluxbox.org/
- Wherecombinator 5y ago
  Oh that’s really cool. Wonder if there’s an add on for windows/mac/Linux that achiever the same functionality
  - Fr0styMatt88 5y ago
    One I know of for application windows with tabs in Windows is Stardock Groupy: https://www.stardock.com/products/groupy/ https://www.stardock.com/products/groupy/
- afranchuk 5y ago
  Yeah I've always wished for something like that. That also gives (presumably) a much stronger programmatic association between windows (GUIs) and processes. Trying to programmatically figure those things out in e.g. X11 is sloppy at best.
- clavicat 5y ago
  It’s so simple but absolutely brilliant. The only thing the new tab page needs is a search box that searches programs and files. This one person single-handedly “solved” the windows UI paradigm. This is how it should’ve been from the start. There was never any need for a non-window box like a start menu. Microsoft, please hire this man and appoint him dictator of UX.
- mananaysiempre 5y ago
  Note that Haiku has OS-, or rather WM-level tabs, too, even if they qualify for one of the most non-discoverable GUI features ever[1] (apparently the idea comes from the original BeOS). Their web browser doesn’t use them, though. [1]: https://www.haiku-os.org/docs/userguide/en/gui.html#stack-tile https://www.haiku-os.org/docs/userguide/en/gui.html#stack-ti...
Hammershaft 5y ago
God I would kill to make the pipe dream of competition in the OS space happen, there are many interesting hobbyist projects like this that just peak at some of the features and ideas that the current dominant operating systems don't touch.
- 1_player 5y ago
  There are two huge hurdles that no hobby operating system can realistically overcome, without major tradeoffs (like being 100% POSIX-compatible): accelerated graphics, which in this day and age are required even for basic 2D rendering, especially if you have a hidpi monitor, and a web browser. Everything else, compared to those two problems, is easy stuff. Graphics is just incredibly complex, opaque and obtuse kernel-space logic with tons of corner cases. Web browsing for normal day-to-day usage is about a million lines of code, +/- one order of magnitude.
  - TheDong 5y ago
    I would place "driver support" as on the same level. Porting a web browser to work on your platform (chromium, webkit) doesn't require rewriting the whole thing, and chromium etc already are designed in a way to isolate browser code from OS-specific code (as we can see by chromium code for windows/linux/macOS/android being mostly shared). On the other hand, making it so your OS works with the large number of common USB devices, networking chips, etc... it's a fantastical effort which linux only barely manages to accomplish.
    - xyzzyz 5y ago
      This can be somewhat mitigated by running these OSes as VM guests, under Linux (or Windows) supervisor. That way, you only need to implement the virt devices. This makes some things not achievable (e.g. 0.7s startup time), but can make bootstrap phase of growth much easier.
      - leoc 5y ago
        “Linux is a free set of buggy device drivers” https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13660437 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13660437
tibbydudeza 5y ago
Seems he wrote his own kernel/drivers/network stack - it is not based on linux.
afranchuk 5y ago
This looks very lean (in a good way). Naturally he's only demoing what works well but there really is a lot here!
46756e 5y ago
Didn't know about this Handmade Seattle Conference until these recent links, but these OS demos have become my favorite posts on Hacker news. I'm sure most regular users saw the post, but there was one on SerenityOS that was also very cool.
- Barrin92 5y ago
  Casey Muratori whose game project I think is the original inspiration for the Handmade community over the years also has streamed hundreds of hours of building a game entirely from scratch, I've learned quite a lot from them. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnuhp3Xd9PYTt6svyQPyRO_AAuMWGxPzU https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnuhp3Xd9PYTt6svyQPyR...
  - 46756e 5y ago
    great share, thank you!
tmilard 5y ago
It is refreshing to see so many good new GUI ideas. Most of them I had never thought of. Some people are born more creative and more clever than others. A leader
phendrenad2 5y ago
The GUI is cool and all, but someone could implement that for Linux or BSD. I'm more interested in how the kernel differs from Linux, and what the plan is to increase hardware support (if any).
- lerno 5y ago
  I believe the kernel design is inspired by the original NT design.
- ncmncm 5y ago
  The future of OS design, if it has a future, is kernel bypass. The kernel will only manage access to resources, usually described as the "control plane", while the data bypasses the kernel, via the "data plane", handed over to programs. Virtual memory mapping is another dead end. Programs will be compiled by a trusted compiler that makes memory misuse impossible, so there is no need to hide anything. The huge mass of kernel-mode code in Linux the BSDs, and NT is a major liability. Of course all the Posixy browser desktop stuff where performance doesn't matter will run under emulation.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
mast22 5y ago
Handmade OS but a mile ahead of Apple with that snap window feature. Just my frustration after using Mac for the first time.
- Jerry2 5y ago
  if that's your only complaint, it's very simple to fix: SpectacleApp Source: https://github.com/eczarny/spectacle https://github.com/eczarny/spectacle Download: https://spectacleapp.com/ https://spectacleapp.com/
  - grzm 5y ago
    Spectacle is no longer being maintained. I find Rectangle to be a good replacement. https://rectangleapp.com/ https://rectangleapp.com/
open-source-ux 5y ago
A very impressive demo. It's refreshing to come across new user interfaces or operating system ideas like this. I'm intrigued by a comment from the creator: he dislikes Unix. Among many developers, this is tantamount to blasphemy. It’s a shame the author didn’t expand on his reasons. A reasonable critique of Unix-like operating systems should always we welcome given the stranglehold Unix sways over developers.

130 points by abnercoimbre 5y ago

So far it looks great (except for the gnomish minimalism). I'll take a longer look when that blinding white theme the demo uses is changed to dark. (A nice feature that most OS's have.)

yhzbro 5y ago

AMAZING OS , i want it to go mainstream and have Apps and Games written for it

Flankk 5y ago

Using the window as the application launcher is genius. Tabbed windows at the OS level is also great. I'm honestly blown away by this.

jeremyevans 5y ago
If you're using X, the fluxbox window manager supports tabbed windows: http://fluxbox.org/ http://fluxbox.org/
Wherecombinator 5y ago
Oh that’s really cool. Wonder if there’s an add on for windows/mac/Linux that achiever the same functionality
- Fr0styMatt88 5y ago
  One I know of for application windows with tabs in Windows is Stardock Groupy: https://www.stardock.com/products/groupy/ https://www.stardock.com/products/groupy/
afranchuk 5y ago
Yeah I've always wished for something like that. That also gives (presumably) a much stronger programmatic association between windows (GUIs) and processes. Trying to programmatically figure those things out in e.g. X11 is sloppy at best.
clavicat 5y ago
It’s so simple but absolutely brilliant. The only thing the new tab page needs is a search box that searches programs and files. This one person single-handedly “solved” the windows UI paradigm. This is how it should’ve been from the start. There was never any need for a non-window box like a start menu. Microsoft, please hire this man and appoint him dictator of UX.
mananaysiempre 5y ago
Note that Haiku has OS-, or rather WM-level tabs, too, even if they qualify for one of the most non-discoverable GUI features ever[1] (apparently the idea comes from the original BeOS). Their web browser doesn’t use them, though. [1]: https://www.haiku-os.org/docs/userguide/en/gui.html#stack-tile https://www.haiku-os.org/docs/userguide/en/gui.html#stack-ti...

Hammershaft 5y ago

God I would kill to make the pipe dream of competition in the OS space happen, there are many interesting hobbyist projects like this that just peak at some of the features and ideas that the current dominant operating systems don't touch.

1_player 5y ago
There are two huge hurdles that no hobby operating system can realistically overcome, without major tradeoffs (like being 100% POSIX-compatible): accelerated graphics, which in this day and age are required even for basic 2D rendering, especially if you have a hidpi monitor, and a web browser. Everything else, compared to those two problems, is easy stuff. Graphics is just incredibly complex, opaque and obtuse kernel-space logic with tons of corner cases. Web browsing for normal day-to-day usage is about a million lines of code, +/- one order of magnitude.
- TheDong 5y ago
  I would place "driver support" as on the same level. Porting a web browser to work on your platform (chromium, webkit) doesn't require rewriting the whole thing, and chromium etc already are designed in a way to isolate browser code from OS-specific code (as we can see by chromium code for windows/linux/macOS/android being mostly shared). On the other hand, making it so your OS works with the large number of common USB devices, networking chips, etc... it's a fantastical effort which linux only barely manages to accomplish.
  - xyzzyz 5y ago
    This can be somewhat mitigated by running these OSes as VM guests, under Linux (or Windows) supervisor. That way, you only need to implement the virt devices. This makes some things not achievable (e.g. 0.7s startup time), but can make bootstrap phase of growth much easier.
    - leoc 5y ago
      “Linux is a free set of buggy device drivers” https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13660437 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13660437

tibbydudeza 5y ago

Seems he wrote his own kernel/drivers/network stack - it is not based on linux.

afranchuk 5y ago

This looks very lean (in a good way). Naturally he's only demoing what works well but there really is a lot here!

46756e 5y ago

Didn't know about this Handmade Seattle Conference until these recent links, but these OS demos have become my favorite posts on Hacker news. I'm sure most regular users saw the post, but there was one on SerenityOS that was also very cool.

Barrin92 5y ago
Casey Muratori whose game project I think is the original inspiration for the Handmade community over the years also has streamed hundreds of hours of building a game entirely from scratch, I've learned quite a lot from them. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnuhp3Xd9PYTt6svyQPyRO_AAuMWGxPzU https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnuhp3Xd9PYTt6svyQPyR...
- 46756e 5y ago
  great share, thank you!

tmilard 5y ago

It is refreshing to see so many good new GUI ideas. Most of them I had never thought of. Some people are born more creative and more clever than others. A leader

phendrenad2 5y ago

The GUI is cool and all, but someone could implement that for Linux or BSD. I'm more interested in how the kernel differs from Linux, and what the plan is to increase hardware support (if any).

lerno 5y ago
I believe the kernel design is inspired by the original NT design.
ncmncm 5y ago
The future of OS design, if it has a future, is kernel bypass. The kernel will only manage access to resources, usually described as the "control plane", while the data bypasses the kernel, via the "data plane", handed over to programs. Virtual memory mapping is another dead end. Programs will be compiled by a trusted compiler that makes memory misuse impossible, so there is no need to hide anything. The huge mass of kernel-mode code in Linux the BSDs, and NT is a major liability. Of course all the Posixy browser desktop stuff where performance doesn't matter will run under emulation.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

mast22 5y ago

Handmade OS but a mile ahead of Apple with that snap window feature. Just my frustration after using Mac for the first time.

Jerry2 5y ago
if that's your only complaint, it's very simple to fix: SpectacleApp Source: https://github.com/eczarny/spectacle https://github.com/eczarny/spectacle Download: https://spectacleapp.com/ https://spectacleapp.com/
- grzm 5y ago
  Spectacle is no longer being maintained. I find Rectangle to be a good replacement. https://rectangleapp.com/ https://rectangleapp.com/

open-source-ux 5y ago

A very impressive demo. It's refreshing to come across new user interfaces or operating system ideas like this. I'm intrigued by a comment from the creator: he dislikes Unix. Among many developers, this is tantamount to blasphemy. It’s a shame the author didn’t expand on his reasons. A reasonable critique of Unix-like operating systems should always we welcome given the stranglehold Unix sways over developers.