4 ms·

It feels as though men are awarded so little respect and credibility on the subject of gender issues that the only way the enlightened reader could palatably sy

It feels as though men are awarded so little respect and credibility on the subject of gender issues that the only way the enlightened reader could palatably sympathize with a man is through the lens of the transgendered. It's not as if men haven't been saying these same things for years.

monocasa 5y ago
It's more that it's the closest thing we have to an A/B test on the matter.
- akdas 5y ago
  This is exactly why I expanded on the original article! I have been advocating for all the same interventions, but to hear it from those who have experienced both worlds is a great affirmation of my one-sided experience.
- Zababa 5y ago
  While the idea sounds reasonable, it seems a bit tone deaf. Feminism and racial justice is all about listening to minorities and not silencing their voices. But when it comes to men, we rely on the experience of a very specific group of people. With all the respect I have for these men, I don't think their experience should be considered representative of the experience of cis men in general. Just like cis men wouldn't be representative of the experience of non-cis men. Or men representative of the experience of women. At least now I understand a bit more the frustration that people feel when they're not represented properly or not taken seriously. That's a nice side effect, and maybe was the whole point of the article. But it still leaves a bad taste.
  - monocasa 5y ago
    I don't see it as relying on them, but instead adding an additional extremely compelling of evidence that backs up the core hypothesis. Nearly all complex issues have to be attacked and backed up from many different directions.
  - akdas 5y ago
    I wrote this article because the experience of these transgender men add to my own personal experiences, sometimes affirming my experiences, sometimes providing a new perspective. I have written other articles before from my own perspective.
  - pell 5y ago
    >But when it comes to men, we rely on the experience of a very specific group of people. I understand how one might come to this conclusion but it doesn't appear to be correct. In fact, the vast majority of medical and psychological studies has been conducted on (cis) men. Libraries are filled with the thoughts, stories and reflections of men. If anything, it seems the male experience and physiology has been the default template and has and still does claim the most space. Therefore, I don't think this post can be considered a common or the only accepted example of how to understand the male experience. To me it was one of a very small number of similar pieces I've encountered online actually. I do think this article can actually be considered interesting due to its novelty but I really don't see how it is presented as _the only_ lense through which we should view male experiences and I don't see how that would be factually correct either.
throwaway984393 5y ago
They (cis-men) are probably not awarded respect and credibility by default because historically they've been the ones causing all the shit.
- CyberDildonics 5y ago
  Play mad-libs with the demographic you mentioned if you want to see how well any statement like this ages.
  - JasonCannon 5y ago
    Hit me up when women and trans people start oppressing cis men. Until then, "play mad-libs" doesn't really hold up any water. There is this thing called history, and it backs the above person's comment.
    - CyberDildonics 5y ago
      This is a dubious way to rationalize bigotry against a demographic and it doesn't even address the original hyperbolic and bigoted claim.
      - JasonCannon 5y ago
        What bigotry? What oppression are cis men facing? I can definitely share tons of examples of the oppression that cis men have carried out.
        CyberDildonics 5y ago
        big·ot·ry obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction; in particular, prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.
        throwaway984393 5y ago

monocasa 5y ago

It's more that it's the closest thing we have to an A/B test on the matter.

akdas 5y ago
This is exactly why I expanded on the original article! I have been advocating for all the same interventions, but to hear it from those who have experienced both worlds is a great affirmation of my one-sided experience.
Zababa 5y ago
While the idea sounds reasonable, it seems a bit tone deaf. Feminism and racial justice is all about listening to minorities and not silencing their voices. But when it comes to men, we rely on the experience of a very specific group of people. With all the respect I have for these men, I don't think their experience should be considered representative of the experience of cis men in general. Just like cis men wouldn't be representative of the experience of non-cis men. Or men representative of the experience of women. At least now I understand a bit more the frustration that people feel when they're not represented properly or not taken seriously. That's a nice side effect, and maybe was the whole point of the article. But it still leaves a bad taste.
- monocasa 5y ago
  I don't see it as relying on them, but instead adding an additional extremely compelling of evidence that backs up the core hypothesis. Nearly all complex issues have to be attacked and backed up from many different directions.
- akdas 5y ago
  I wrote this article because the experience of these transgender men add to my own personal experiences, sometimes affirming my experiences, sometimes providing a new perspective. I have written other articles before from my own perspective.
- pell 5y ago
  >But when it comes to men, we rely on the experience of a very specific group of people. I understand how one might come to this conclusion but it doesn't appear to be correct. In fact, the vast majority of medical and psychological studies has been conducted on (cis) men. Libraries are filled with the thoughts, stories and reflections of men. If anything, it seems the male experience and physiology has been the default template and has and still does claim the most space. Therefore, I don't think this post can be considered a common or the only accepted example of how to understand the male experience. To me it was one of a very small number of similar pieces I've encountered online actually. I do think this article can actually be considered interesting due to its novelty but I really don't see how it is presented as _the only_ lense through which we should view male experiences and I don't see how that would be factually correct either.

throwaway984393 5y ago

They (cis-men) are probably not awarded respect and credibility by default because historically they've been the ones causing all the shit.

CyberDildonics 5y ago
Play mad-libs with the demographic you mentioned if you want to see how well any statement like this ages.
- JasonCannon 5y ago
  Hit me up when women and trans people start oppressing cis men. Until then, "play mad-libs" doesn't really hold up any water. There is this thing called history, and it backs the above person's comment.
  - CyberDildonics 5y ago
    This is a dubious way to rationalize bigotry against a demographic and it doesn't even address the original hyperbolic and bigoted claim.
    - JasonCannon 5y ago
      What bigotry? What oppression are cis men facing? I can definitely share tons of examples of the oppression that cis men have carried out.
      - CyberDildonics 5y ago
        big·ot·ry obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction; in particular, prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.
        throwaway984393 5y ago