8 ms·

> there was a space and place you could talk about your feelings. In the last, you know, 10 years or so [post-transition] I can’t find those spaces necessarily

> there was a space and place you could talk about your feelings. In the last, you know, 10 years or so [post-transition] I can’t find those spaces necessarily for men, and I don’t know if men necessarily make those spaces for each other. I know that I am not interested in those kinds of spaces. I do not know if this is genetic/nature or cultural/nurture. Either way, I have zero interest in creating or participating in such spaces. I don't know of any man in my family, friend, coworker, or acquaintance circles who would be interested either. But, I keep seeing these messages that there is something wrong with me for not wanting to create or participate in these types of things.

emilfihlman 5y ago
There is nothing wrong with you for not wanting to participate in stuff like that.
akdas 5y ago
I don't think the quote in my article suggests you need to want those spaces. But I do. Cotten does. And it's hard for us to find those spaces.
- emacsen 5y ago
  I (a cis-gendered man) find it interesting how when sensitivity comes up, or the desire for spaces to talk about vulnerability comes up, certain people (often men) treat the suggestion as if it's a personal affront to them. It's similar to how some people react to homosexuality as if it reflects on them. "What, there are people who are attracted to the same gender?! WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT ME!?!" There are men who do like such spaces for men, but I've also seen how they can be challenging to maintain. There are a lot of feelings that come up for men, and a lot of toxic thought patterns and habits, as well as patterns that can come up around shaming others who may not feel the same way as the group. I find also that directly talking can be useful and powerful, but so can community building alongside talking, such as participating in a shared activity- building, gaming, etc. There's a need for both, and most of all, for men to feel valued just for being alive, not for any deed they perform or value they bring to others, just their intrinsic value.
  - apsurd 5y ago
    > There's a need for both, and most of all, for men to feel valued just for being alive, not for any deed they perform or value they bring to others, just their intrinsic value. love this <3
  - LogonType10 5y ago
    >for men to feel valued just for being alive, not for any deed they perform or value they bring to others, just their intrinsic value This is the void feminism left us with: men who provide nothing have no value and are at best invisible and at worst trash you avert your eyes from. It's not obvious that they're wrong.
    - scotu 5y ago
      I'm not sure you got your idea of what feminism is from the correct source, because "men who provide nothing have no value" to me this seems like the patriarchy.
      - LogonType10 5y ago
        Isn't patriarchy the idea that men are in charge and superior to women?
        Zababa 5y ago
        That's a motte and bailey. The motte is "a few men have a disproportionate amount of power in society", the bailey is "all men have more privilege than women". It's important to be clear about what's meant by patriatchy because people often use different definitions, sometimes in the same conversation.
        scotu 5y ago
        disclaimer, I'm not an expert or a scholar, I just saw the effect that our society has and I'm trying to understand. Things are complicated but: men are in charge "correct" definition (I think), superior to women is just the justification it gives for the subjugation of women. The thing is, not all men are in charge (nor they can be), and all men are the same, so the hierarchy cannot be 2 levels: are you not interested in the ball games? down a notch; don't care to prevaricate anybody for your success? down a notch; wanna talk about feelings? and so on. (oh, bonus: like male supremacy, white supremacy is the justification for keeping non-whites down a few notches). I'd say it's crystal clear that the patriarchy generates a system of oppression, and men are oppressed in it as well (strict definition of what makes you a real, worthy man) (amounts of oppression may vary, men on average experience less oppression than women, ask your doctor..ahem).
- harpersealtako 5y ago
  The big issue is that the only spaces like this are either small, private friend groups (e.g. my waterfowl hunting buddies who occasionally get their martial gripes off their chest while out in the duck blind) or public groups/businesses/organizations that inevitably are forced to integrate and become co-ed by outside pressure (defeating the whole point). I disagree with the article's claim that the thing stopping male-only support groups from existing is internal toxicity. I think that external criticism, sometimes unwarranted or malicious criticism from those who have an ideological bone to pick with men's issues or men in general, is a larger barrier.
  - michaelt 5y ago
    I can see what you mean to an extent. But we men are also pretty coy about some of these things - if I'm running a men's divorce support group, but I tell everyone it's a golf club? Well of course people are going to assume it's a golf club.
BoysenberryPi 5y ago
I'd ask you why you aren't interested but then I'd be asking you to talk about your feelings.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
dijit 5y ago
I don't think this is true at all, and it's possibly only your perception. Men (I am a men) have sought out places to discuss feelings, feelings of apathy or tiredness, feelings of the expectations of society. These places are called pubs, social clubs and I believe it's the basis of some "lodges" (as parodied in the stonecutters episode of the Simpsons). These places would likely not exist if it wasn’t for this need.
- emilfihlman 5y ago
  It's definitely not only his perception. Most men don't want to talk about their issues publicly with strangers, who might not even be health care professionals. And I like to just point out that implying that it's just him is both humiliating and toxic.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - pell 5y ago
    >And I like to just point out that implying that it's just him is both humiliating and toxic. You made an assertion about "most men" and then called another person's contradicting view "humiliating and toxic". You are not providing any sort of evidence to support your point through some objective measurement either, you're simply extrapolating your experience onto the majority of men. How is that not humiliating and toxic by your own logic?
  - woodruffw 5y ago
    My reading of the parent's comment is that they're not referring to strangers: your pub, social club, church, &c is frequently an intimate community.
  - thrower123 5y ago
    And we especially do not want to talk about our issues with health care professionals. There's an enormous amount of truth to the "men will do ____ instead of going to therapy" meme.
- 5y ago
Zababa 5y ago
I'm not sure about what the author (or you) mean by "a space and place". I'm glad to be able to talk to my friends or family about my feelings, but I neither want nor need something like a local LGBT association. I like to keep my feelings for myself and people close to me.
- whatshisface 5y ago
  The obvious implication in this discussion, although it's unstated, is that not everyone has people close to them that they feel they can confide in. Maybe their spouse is a basket case and wouldn't be able to handle knowing work was going bad. Maybe their girlfriend has cancer and they know the complaining needs to flow in one direction. Maybe their friends are all slippery ladder climbers and would desert them at the first sign of weakness. You never know.
commandlinefan 5y ago
I don't think those kind of spaces would be particularly helpful or useful to me either, but when they do pop up in places (like Reddit), they get banned pretty quickly, so they're not available for the sort of people who do.
- pseudalopex 5y ago
  MensLib is the best known space like that on Reddit probably. It's 6 years old.
philwelch 5y ago
This seems like an instance of the fallacy where people sort of operate from the premise that men are basically defective women and that following feminine behavior patterns will be helpful for them. It’s sort of tied up with the notion of “toxic masculinity”.
- monocasa 5y ago
  When you hear 'toxic masculinity', do you hear 'the subset of components of traditional masculinity which perpetuate toxicity' or do you hear 'masculinity, which at it's core is toxic'?
  - philwelch 5y ago
    One is the motte and the other is the bailey.
    - monocasa 5y ago
      I haven't found that to be the case, after exploring the space not from what's filtered through propagandists.
      - philwelch 5y ago
        How would the people who use the term "toxic masculinity" react to the term "toxic femininity"? That's the tell.
        monocasa 5y ago
        Toxic femininity is also a concept heavily explored in the same circles as the concept of toxic masculinity.
      - michaelt 5y ago
        It depends. If you take a list of traditionally 'manly' activities, like woodworking and growing a beard, then you subtract everything that women can do just as well as men - there are many skilled female woodworkers, we don't want them to feel unwelcome in the woodworking community, and woodworking doesn't make them any less feminine; after doing so, your list of 'manly' activities might be quite short and dominated by the toxic and the tautological, because everything else, like woodworking, has been removed. Personally I don't see things as that binary, but I can understand why some people might.
xmonkee 5y ago
>there is something wrong with me do you wanna talk about it?
michaelbuckbee 5y ago
There's a spectrum to these things. I imagine that there's a small number of folks who want to sign up for a Slack or Discord with a name like: "Hey fellow men, come talk mental health issues." but I'm in some communities around tech/entrepreneurship where we've formed real friendships and can talk about things like grieving for loved ones, dealing with pandemic induced stress, ADHD, burnout, parenting, elder care etc. It's not the focus, but having that "space" to vent and to talk honestly with other folks going through the same sorts of things is a benefit to all of us. I think a lot of this is just friendship. Societally, men are reporting having fewer and fewer people in their lives to talk over important issues with [1] which definitely seems like a problem. 1 - https://www.jstor.org/stable/30038995 https://www.jstor.org/stable/30038995
KaiserPro 5y ago
I don't think the post is trying to assert that _every_ man requires such a place or time. You might have excellent coping mechanisms, or indeed are able to manage you emotions through other means. However not having someone to help you through a tough patch, and allow you to express emotions other than dirty laughs and anger is quite debilitating in my experience I don't think that the suggestion is that we gather formally in a circle and discuss our feelings. Or indeed act like stereo typical teenage girls where we gossip about other people behind their backs in a high pitched voice. Just having one person to say: "This is hard, I don't feel like I can do this" and not have to brace for "AHAHAAAA WANKER" in reply, might be be of help to a lot of men.
penjelly 5y ago
you dont want a place for men to discuss things? maybe you dont need it but others may. Even manly dudes still want to be able to talk through their ideas. Thats why we had people like socrates, aristotle and plato. Dudes got together to discuss their thoughts because it helped them think more clearly.
lxe 5y ago
You don't need these spaces until you do. Crisis comes up fast, and such a community can be crucial. For some men I think it's just a small group of close knit friends, but for many it just doesn't exist.
- antisthenes 5y ago
  I have a group of close knit good friends, but when it came to helping me with mental health in a crisis, they were all absolutely clueless. Not harmful, but clueless nonetheless. To their credit, they tried to be either supportive or to avoid the subject, so it was at least a relief in that sense. I chose to seek a professional therapist instead (which helped significantly after a few months)
BitwiseFool 5y ago
Like you, I have never desired a space/time to just "let it all out" emotionally. That being said, there are times I want to really dig deep on a specific thing that is troubling me and I usually just rely on a small cadre of confidants when that happens. And, stereotypically enough, those confidants are all men and we end up "working the problem" rather quickly after the initial exchange of describing how I feel. This, I'm told, is the exact opposite of how you're supposed to listen to someone's problems. However I know that my personal preference is not universal and doing the 'listen and refrain from offering suggestions' approach is much more comforting for most people.
- irrational 5y ago
  This is probably a part of it. It took me far too long to learn that my wife had no interest in solving her problems and truly just wanted to talk about them while I listened. I still don't understand why she, or anyone else, would consider that helpful, but for some reason she does. Like you, if there is an issue I just want to troubleshoot it and move on. There is no practical use in just talking about it without action.
  - carabiner 5y ago
    Are you on the autism spectrum? The hyper-logical, "feelings are a waste of time" persona makes me lean towards yes.
    - irrational 5y ago
      I have no idea. I’ve never been diagnosed as such if I am.
  - throwaway19937 5y ago
    If you want an explanation of your wife's behavior, the book You Just Don't Understand by Deborah Tannen discusses this topic in detail.
- pseudalopex 5y ago
  I never heard anyone say don't work on a problem if someone wants you to. What I heard was don't assume everyone wants it.
jancsika 5y ago
> But, I keep seeing these messages that there is something wrong with me for not wanting to create or participate in these types of things. I didn't see a single sentence in the article-- explicit or implicit-- that made me think the author would find something wrong with someone who doesn't feel the need to utilize such a space. In fact I'm having a hard time figuring out what could have prompted you to write that sentence. Digression-- for some reason it reminds me of a friend of mine who said when they moved into an apartment the landlord who was insistent about never putting noodles down the drain of the sink. My friend agreed he would never do that. Then one day when there was a leak in the kitchen sink he called the landlord, who immediately yelled back, "You didn't put any noodles down there, did you?" He assured the landlord that indeed, he had not put any noodles down the drain to cause the leak. Anyway, I never found out what exactly happened with noodles and drains to cause his landlord to start any and all conversations with that directive. (It was an apartment complex near a university, so the equation most likely involves ramen plus a group of drunk college students.)
- irrational 5y ago
  This article? No, but I see the same sentiment being expressed in lots of other articles that do say that there is something wrong with you if you don't want to sit around and just talk.
  - jancsika 5y ago
    In other words-- you'd prefer those other articles be written more like this one?
carabiner 5y ago
> I don't know of any man in my family, friend, coworker, or acquaintance circles who would be interested either. That's because they don't talk about it with you, because you're not interested. It's kind of like if you know any black or gay people or women, they've probably never told you of prejudice they've experienced. It's not an easy subject to broach. But, 100% chance, they have experienced it.
michaelt 5y ago
I think people who advocate for these ideas think they'd be useful for some men some of the time. Much like having a footpump in the garage - you might not need it this day, or even this year. Some people will get through life without ever needing a pump. But if you need to inflate a tyre? You'll be glad to have it. And almost anyone can get a flat tyre.
AnimalMuppet 5y ago
No, there's nothing wrong with you. The world does not get to tell you that you have to talk about your feelings. If you don't want to, that's fine. What's wrong is that, if you are male and you do want/need to talk about your feelings, there's no place where you can do it. That's not a problem for you, but for some males, it is.
hn92726819 5y ago
Throwaway for obvious reasons. > I don't know of any man in my family, friend, coworker, or acquaintance circles who would be interested either For another perspective, I personally have been thinking of suicide for quite some time now. I would absolutely love to talk about it with people, but I know that I can't for many reasons. The point is, I am extremely selective of who I let even a small part of that side of me see. Everyone else I know is (hopefully) completely unaware. When I do talk about it with someone, it's because I trust them and they "feel" like they will be understanding of this. Maybe, with no disrespect, you don't fit this criteria for them. I know most of my friends don't.

emilfihlman 5y ago

There is nothing wrong with you for not wanting to participate in stuff like that.

akdas 5y ago

I don't think the quote in my article suggests you need to want those spaces. But I do. Cotten does. And it's hard for us to find those spaces.

emacsen 5y ago
I (a cis-gendered man) find it interesting how when sensitivity comes up, or the desire for spaces to talk about vulnerability comes up, certain people (often men) treat the suggestion as if it's a personal affront to them. It's similar to how some people react to homosexuality as if it reflects on them. "What, there are people who are attracted to the same gender?! WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT ME!?!" There are men who do like such spaces for men, but I've also seen how they can be challenging to maintain. There are a lot of feelings that come up for men, and a lot of toxic thought patterns and habits, as well as patterns that can come up around shaming others who may not feel the same way as the group. I find also that directly talking can be useful and powerful, but so can community building alongside talking, such as participating in a shared activity- building, gaming, etc. There's a need for both, and most of all, for men to feel valued just for being alive, not for any deed they perform or value they bring to others, just their intrinsic value.
- apsurd 5y ago
  > There's a need for both, and most of all, for men to feel valued just for being alive, not for any deed they perform or value they bring to others, just their intrinsic value. love this <3
- LogonType10 5y ago
  >for men to feel valued just for being alive, not for any deed they perform or value they bring to others, just their intrinsic value This is the void feminism left us with: men who provide nothing have no value and are at best invisible and at worst trash you avert your eyes from. It's not obvious that they're wrong.
  - scotu 5y ago
    I'm not sure you got your idea of what feminism is from the correct source, because "men who provide nothing have no value" to me this seems like the patriarchy.
    - LogonType10 5y ago
      Isn't patriarchy the idea that men are in charge and superior to women?
      - Zababa 5y ago
        That's a motte and bailey. The motte is "a few men have a disproportionate amount of power in society", the bailey is "all men have more privilege than women". It's important to be clear about what's meant by patriatchy because people often use different definitions, sometimes in the same conversation.
      - scotu 5y ago
        disclaimer, I'm not an expert or a scholar, I just saw the effect that our society has and I'm trying to understand. Things are complicated but: men are in charge "correct" definition (I think), superior to women is just the justification it gives for the subjugation of women. The thing is, not all men are in charge (nor they can be), and all men are the same, so the hierarchy cannot be 2 levels: are you not interested in the ball games? down a notch; don't care to prevaricate anybody for your success? down a notch; wanna talk about feelings? and so on. (oh, bonus: like male supremacy, white supremacy is the justification for keeping non-whites down a few notches). I'd say it's crystal clear that the patriarchy generates a system of oppression, and men are oppressed in it as well (strict definition of what makes you a real, worthy man) (amounts of oppression may vary, men on average experience less oppression than women, ask your doctor..ahem).
harpersealtako 5y ago
The big issue is that the only spaces like this are either small, private friend groups (e.g. my waterfowl hunting buddies who occasionally get their martial gripes off their chest while out in the duck blind) or public groups/businesses/organizations that inevitably are forced to integrate and become co-ed by outside pressure (defeating the whole point). I disagree with the article's claim that the thing stopping male-only support groups from existing is internal toxicity. I think that external criticism, sometimes unwarranted or malicious criticism from those who have an ideological bone to pick with men's issues or men in general, is a larger barrier.
- michaelt 5y ago
  I can see what you mean to an extent. But we men are also pretty coy about some of these things - if I'm running a men's divorce support group, but I tell everyone it's a golf club? Well of course people are going to assume it's a golf club.

BoysenberryPi 5y ago

I'd ask you why you aren't interested but then I'd be asking you to talk about your feelings.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

dijit 5y ago

I don't think this is true at all, and it's possibly only your perception. Men (I am a men) have sought out places to discuss feelings, feelings of apathy or tiredness, feelings of the expectations of society. These places are called pubs, social clubs and I believe it's the basis of some "lodges" (as parodied in the stonecutters episode of the Simpsons). These places would likely not exist if it wasn’t for this need.

emilfihlman 5y ago
It's definitely not only his perception. Most men don't want to talk about their issues publicly with strangers, who might not even be health care professionals. And I like to just point out that implying that it's just him is both humiliating and toxic.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- pell 5y ago
  >And I like to just point out that implying that it's just him is both humiliating and toxic. You made an assertion about "most men" and then called another person's contradicting view "humiliating and toxic". You are not providing any sort of evidence to support your point through some objective measurement either, you're simply extrapolating your experience onto the majority of men. How is that not humiliating and toxic by your own logic?
- woodruffw 5y ago
  My reading of the parent's comment is that they're not referring to strangers: your pub, social club, church, &c is frequently an intimate community.
- thrower123 5y ago
  And we especially do not want to talk about our issues with health care professionals. There's an enormous amount of truth to the "men will do ____ instead of going to therapy" meme.
5y ago

Zababa 5y ago

I'm not sure about what the author (or you) mean by "a space and place". I'm glad to be able to talk to my friends or family about my feelings, but I neither want nor need something like a local LGBT association. I like to keep my feelings for myself and people close to me.

whatshisface 5y ago
The obvious implication in this discussion, although it's unstated, is that not everyone has people close to them that they feel they can confide in. Maybe their spouse is a basket case and wouldn't be able to handle knowing work was going bad. Maybe their girlfriend has cancer and they know the complaining needs to flow in one direction. Maybe their friends are all slippery ladder climbers and would desert them at the first sign of weakness. You never know.

commandlinefan 5y ago

I don't think those kind of spaces would be particularly helpful or useful to me either, but when they do pop up in places (like Reddit), they get banned pretty quickly, so they're not available for the sort of people who do.

pseudalopex 5y ago
MensLib is the best known space like that on Reddit probably. It's 6 years old.

philwelch 5y ago

This seems like an instance of the fallacy where people sort of operate from the premise that men are basically defective women and that following feminine behavior patterns will be helpful for them. It’s sort of tied up with the notion of “toxic masculinity”.

monocasa 5y ago
When you hear 'toxic masculinity', do you hear 'the subset of components of traditional masculinity which perpetuate toxicity' or do you hear 'masculinity, which at it's core is toxic'?
- philwelch 5y ago
  One is the motte and the other is the bailey.
  - monocasa 5y ago
    I haven't found that to be the case, after exploring the space not from what's filtered through propagandists.
    - philwelch 5y ago
      How would the people who use the term "toxic masculinity" react to the term "toxic femininity"? That's the tell.
      - monocasa 5y ago
        Toxic femininity is also a concept heavily explored in the same circles as the concept of toxic masculinity.
    - michaelt 5y ago
      It depends. If you take a list of traditionally 'manly' activities, like woodworking and growing a beard, then you subtract everything that women can do just as well as men - there are many skilled female woodworkers, we don't want them to feel unwelcome in the woodworking community, and woodworking doesn't make them any less feminine; after doing so, your list of 'manly' activities might be quite short and dominated by the toxic and the tautological, because everything else, like woodworking, has been removed. Personally I don't see things as that binary, but I can understand why some people might.

xmonkee 5y ago

>there is something wrong with me do you wanna talk about it?

michaelbuckbee 5y ago

There's a spectrum to these things. I imagine that there's a small number of folks who want to sign up for a Slack or Discord with a name like: "Hey fellow men, come talk mental health issues." but I'm in some communities around tech/entrepreneurship where we've formed real friendships and can talk about things like grieving for loved ones, dealing with pandemic induced stress, ADHD, burnout, parenting, elder care etc. It's not the focus, but having that "space" to vent and to talk honestly with other folks going through the same sorts of things is a benefit to all of us. I think a lot of this is just friendship. Societally, men are reporting having fewer and fewer people in their lives to talk over important issues with [1] which definitely seems like a problem. 1 - https://www.jstor.org/stable/30038995 https://www.jstor.org/stable/30038995

KaiserPro 5y ago

I don't think the post is trying to assert that _every_ man requires such a place or time. You might have excellent coping mechanisms, or indeed are able to manage you emotions through other means. However not having someone to help you through a tough patch, and allow you to express emotions other than dirty laughs and anger is quite debilitating in my experience I don't think that the suggestion is that we gather formally in a circle and discuss our feelings. Or indeed act like stereo typical teenage girls where we gossip about other people behind their backs in a high pitched voice. Just having one person to say: "This is hard, I don't feel like I can do this" and not have to brace for "AHAHAAAA WANKER" in reply, might be be of help to a lot of men.

penjelly 5y ago

you dont want a place for men to discuss things? maybe you dont need it but others may. Even manly dudes still want to be able to talk through their ideas. Thats why we had people like socrates, aristotle and plato. Dudes got together to discuss their thoughts because it helped them think more clearly.

lxe 5y ago

You don't need these spaces until you do. Crisis comes up fast, and such a community can be crucial. For some men I think it's just a small group of close knit friends, but for many it just doesn't exist.

antisthenes 5y ago
I have a group of close knit good friends, but when it came to helping me with mental health in a crisis, they were all absolutely clueless. Not harmful, but clueless nonetheless. To their credit, they tried to be either supportive or to avoid the subject, so it was at least a relief in that sense. I chose to seek a professional therapist instead (which helped significantly after a few months)

BitwiseFool 5y ago

Like you, I have never desired a space/time to just "let it all out" emotionally. That being said, there are times I want to really dig deep on a specific thing that is troubling me and I usually just rely on a small cadre of confidants when that happens. And, stereotypically enough, those confidants are all men and we end up "working the problem" rather quickly after the initial exchange of describing how I feel. This, I'm told, is the exact opposite of how you're supposed to listen to someone's problems. However I know that my personal preference is not universal and doing the 'listen and refrain from offering suggestions' approach is much more comforting for most people.

irrational 5y ago
This is probably a part of it. It took me far too long to learn that my wife had no interest in solving her problems and truly just wanted to talk about them while I listened. I still don't understand why she, or anyone else, would consider that helpful, but for some reason she does. Like you, if there is an issue I just want to troubleshoot it and move on. There is no practical use in just talking about it without action.
- carabiner 5y ago
  Are you on the autism spectrum? The hyper-logical, "feelings are a waste of time" persona makes me lean towards yes.
  - irrational 5y ago
    I have no idea. I’ve never been diagnosed as such if I am.
- throwaway19937 5y ago
  If you want an explanation of your wife's behavior, the book You Just Don't Understand by Deborah Tannen discusses this topic in detail.
pseudalopex 5y ago
I never heard anyone say don't work on a problem if someone wants you to. What I heard was don't assume everyone wants it.

jancsika 5y ago

> But, I keep seeing these messages that there is something wrong with me for not wanting to create or participate in these types of things. I didn't see a single sentence in the article-- explicit or implicit-- that made me think the author would find something wrong with someone who doesn't feel the need to utilize such a space. In fact I'm having a hard time figuring out what could have prompted you to write that sentence. Digression-- for some reason it reminds me of a friend of mine who said when they moved into an apartment the landlord who was insistent about never putting noodles down the drain of the sink. My friend agreed he would never do that. Then one day when there was a leak in the kitchen sink he called the landlord, who immediately yelled back, "You didn't put any noodles down there, did you?" He assured the landlord that indeed, he had not put any noodles down the drain to cause the leak. Anyway, I never found out what exactly happened with noodles and drains to cause his landlord to start any and all conversations with that directive. (It was an apartment complex near a university, so the equation most likely involves ramen plus a group of drunk college students.)

irrational 5y ago
This article? No, but I see the same sentiment being expressed in lots of other articles that do say that there is something wrong with you if you don't want to sit around and just talk.
- jancsika 5y ago
  In other words-- you'd prefer those other articles be written more like this one?

carabiner 5y ago

> I don't know of any man in my family, friend, coworker, or acquaintance circles who would be interested either. That's because they don't talk about it with you, because you're not interested. It's kind of like if you know any black or gay people or women, they've probably never told you of prejudice they've experienced. It's not an easy subject to broach. But, 100% chance, they have experienced it.

michaelt 5y ago

I think people who advocate for these ideas think they'd be useful for some men some of the time. Much like having a footpump in the garage - you might not need it this day, or even this year. Some people will get through life without ever needing a pump. But if you need to inflate a tyre? You'll be glad to have it. And almost anyone can get a flat tyre.

AnimalMuppet 5y ago

No, there's nothing wrong with you. The world does not get to tell you that you have to talk about your feelings. If you don't want to, that's fine. What's wrong is that, if you are male and you do want/need to talk about your feelings, there's no place where you can do it. That's not a problem for you, but for some males, it is.

hn92726819 5y ago

Throwaway for obvious reasons. > I don't know of any man in my family, friend, coworker, or acquaintance circles who would be interested either For another perspective, I personally have been thinking of suicide for quite some time now. I would absolutely love to talk about it with people, but I know that I can't for many reasons. The point is, I am extremely selective of who I let even a small part of that side of me see. Everyone else I know is (hopefully) completely unaware. When I do talk about it with someone, it's because I trust them and they "feel" like they will be understanding of this. Maybe, with no disrespect, you don't fit this criteria for them. I know most of my friends don't.