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We really lack a better name here than packaging. When it was packaging substrate, wire-bonds, chip, pins, and heat spreader, yeah, ok. But now the substrate i
by rektide 5y ago
We really lack a better name here than packaging.
When it was packaging substrate, wire-bonds, chip, pins, and heat spreader, yeah, ok. But now the substrate is probably it's own interposer, perhaps with more interposers in it, the chip is probably at least two chips, when more and more is stacked together & intricately interconnected: the word packaging feels super super insufficient.
Massive shout out to "The Rising Tide of Semi-conductor Costs"[1] for talking to a bunch of related concerns. It didn't go nearly deep enough into this point, and this article does a little more, but it found the choice quote, and it's implicitly about "all this":
> ASML, in its investor day, made a bold statement that Moore’s Law will continue with system-level scaling.
Which seems exactly so. Via "advanced packaging". Via stacking more chips up. Via better interposers & EIMB to string together more chips more closely. We're on the cusp of advanced chips becoming many chips. For places like flash memory, this has been the way already for a while, but we're stacking cache and main memory and real compute atop each other, connecting them side ways-- what was "the chip" is being reborn, is now a system of chips.
However the Rising Tide article's core point is much more complex, about costs & complexity. It could well be blistering correct that this reformulation, that this advanced packaging, while allowing much more advanced scaling, wont aid the same Moore's Law we have come to enjoy:
> I want to focus not just on the technological headwinds, but the cost headwinds. One of the major historical assumptions of Moore’s Law is that not only would your transistors double every two years, but the cost of the transistors would decline. No longer.
[1] https://www.fabricatedknowledge.com/p/the-rising-tide-of-semiconductor https://www.fabricatedknowledge.com/p/the-rising-tide-of-sem... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29316389 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29316389 (6 days ago, 4 comments)
- PaulHoule 5y agoIn my mind advanced packaging competes more directly with making circuit boards that have more chips on them than it does with making chips that have more elements on them either by making the chips bigger or the elements smaller.
- rektide 5y agoI fail to see the competition. It's not just integration. Projects like AMD's Ryzen would simply not be possible without advanced multi-chip packaging.
- PaulHoule 5y agoIt competes with a two socket machine. On one hand chiplets win because you can fit it in a laptop form factor and it probably costs less than the dual socket motherboard and two CPUs. There is also the psychology that you feel like a Master Knerd if you have a two socket machine. I don't think Ryzen really takes advantage of it but you can have a really high performance interconnect inside the package. Even there you have a competition between in-package integration and the alternatives. For instance HBM-based GFX cards exist on the market side-by-side with GFX cards that have external GDDR memory.