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"most economical" is not just some minor feature. If you were to switch to another means of producing hydrogen the price of the process would rise dramatically.

"most economical" is not just some minor feature. If you were to switch to another means of producing hydrogen the price of the process would rise dramatically. The only non-fossil fuel hydrogen generation process is water electrolysis (well and biomass, but guess what's involved in efficiently producing large quantities of biomass). If you currently eliminated fossil fuels from the process the price required to maintain our current food levels would escalate dramatically. In practice this would mean likely that both food production will drop and food prices would rise. I don't think it's disingenuous. Maybe I should add "affordable" as a prefix to nitrogen fixation, but "less economic" fertilizer means "less economic" food which is a fairly big problem.

Hypx_ 5y ago
Given the rapid drop in green hydrogen costs, this argument is itself becoming outdated. We will just switch green sources of ammonia and there will be minimal if not nonexistent increases in cost.
- time_to_smile 5y ago
  From the other reply's (very green optimistic) source [0]: > While less than 0.1% of global dedicated hydrogen production today comes from water electrolysis, with declining costs for renewable electricity, in particular from solar PV and wind, there is growing interest in electrolytic hydrogen. When do you think we'll see >50% of hydrogen produced with green energy via electrolysis? I'm betting: "not within our lifetime", but enjoy taking long views on these things and being wrong. Just curious when you think that's realistically feasible, and when we'll reach 10% (again, I'll still vote "not within our lifetime")? I'd be delighted to be wrong on this, but still haven't convinced myself. I would be genuinely interested to see your targets on this and then we can interpolate and come up with some milestone we can agree will be seen in our lifetime if you're correct. 0. https://www.iea.org/reports/the-future-of-hydrogen https://www.iea.org/reports/the-future-of-hydrogen
  - Hypx_ 5y ago
    It will happen by around 2030. It might reach 100% shortly afterwards. Also, hydrogen production should increase by well over an order of magnitude in 25-30 years.
    - dang 5y ago
      We've banned this account for using HN to post only about one thing and ignoring our request to stop. Sorry, but you can't do that here. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29301556 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29301556
credit_guy 5y ago
According to the IEA (International Energy Agency) [1] the current (well, as of 2018) production cost of hydrogen using methane as a feedstock is $ 0.9-3.2 /kg, while using renewables is 3.0-7.5 USD/kg. However, as the cost of renewables goes down, there will be plenty of places in the world where the cost of producing H2 (including transportation to the place of use) will be below $2/kg, so quite competitive with methane (not to mention that the price of methane is about twice now what it was in 2018). [1]https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/hydrogen-production-costs-by-production-source-2018 https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/hydrogen-prod... [2] https://www.iea.org/reports/the-future-of-hydrogen https://www.iea.org/reports/the-future-of-hydrogen

Hypx_ 5y ago

Given the rapid drop in green hydrogen costs, this argument is itself becoming outdated. We will just switch green sources of ammonia and there will be minimal if not nonexistent increases in cost.

time_to_smile 5y ago
From the other reply's (very green optimistic) source [0]: > While less than 0.1% of global dedicated hydrogen production today comes from water electrolysis, with declining costs for renewable electricity, in particular from solar PV and wind, there is growing interest in electrolytic hydrogen. When do you think we'll see >50% of hydrogen produced with green energy via electrolysis? I'm betting: "not within our lifetime", but enjoy taking long views on these things and being wrong. Just curious when you think that's realistically feasible, and when we'll reach 10% (again, I'll still vote "not within our lifetime")? I'd be delighted to be wrong on this, but still haven't convinced myself. I would be genuinely interested to see your targets on this and then we can interpolate and come up with some milestone we can agree will be seen in our lifetime if you're correct. 0. https://www.iea.org/reports/the-future-of-hydrogen https://www.iea.org/reports/the-future-of-hydrogen
- Hypx_ 5y ago
  It will happen by around 2030. It might reach 100% shortly afterwards. Also, hydrogen production should increase by well over an order of magnitude in 25-30 years.
  - dang 5y ago
    We've banned this account for using HN to post only about one thing and ignoring our request to stop. Sorry, but you can't do that here. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29301556 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29301556

credit_guy 5y ago

According to the IEA (International Energy Agency) [1] the current (well, as of 2018) production cost of hydrogen using methane as a feedstock is $ 0.9-3.2 /kg, while using renewables is 3.0-7.5 USD/kg. However, as the cost of renewables goes down, there will be plenty of places in the world where the cost of producing H2 (including transportation to the place of use) will be below $2/kg, so quite competitive with methane (not to mention that the price of methane is about twice now what it was in 2018). [1]https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/hydrogen-production-costs-by-production-source-2018 https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/hydrogen-prod... [2] https://www.iea.org/reports/the-future-of-hydrogen https://www.iea.org/reports/the-future-of-hydrogen