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> since their launch have had a ton of issues and realized why ethereum made the decisions they've made. could you be more specific about Cardano issues?

hanniabu 5y ago
One straight forward one is their scaling. They would bash ethereum's developers saying how stupid they are and cardano spent years on research papers without any practical experience to come up with off-chain payment channels. Just recently (a week ago?) They finally submitted and confirmed rollups were better and that they'd start working on those. But with their speed of development, grifting founder, and more interest in marketing than building, I don't expect them to finish any time soon or be relevant.
- exdsq 5y ago
  Cardano does have significant benefits though. For example native tokens rather than wrapping things in smart contracts saves a lot of space, computation, and expense.
  - tata71 5y ago
    Cardano can have xyz benefit — are they too late to get traction? It looks to me like first mover advantage, and community support, are carrying Ethereum off into the sunset.
    - exdsq 5y ago
      Maybe! I do trust in Cardanos robustness so there could be a move towards them if something goes wrong in an Ethereum fork, or if the fees don’t come down. However I think Ethereum may be the JavaScript of blockchain - imperfect, but the winner nonetheless.
    - marcoslozada 5y ago
      Yes, Cardano audits are really late
      - exdsq 5y ago
        What do you mean by "Cardano audits are really late"?
  - lostmsu 5y ago
    What happens, when the structure of a typical token contract changes?
    - exdsq 5y ago
      I don't know when this would happen - it'd be a big deal, like a fork I think. The point is on Ethereum we might create an ERC-20 token for NewCoin that wraps it and then all of our interactions with NewCoin is via smart contracts. On Cardano these would be native to the chain in the same way as Ether is on Ethereum (or Ada on Cardano). If you need a layer of logic over the token you'd need to introduce a smart contract but for things like transferring, getting supply, etc, it's the same as doing that for Ether on Ethereum - they're essentially primitive functions on the chain.
- apatheticnpc 5y ago
  when did they say that rollups are better and that they'd switch to them?
  - hanniabu 5y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJcVEJ1a6eg&t=4660s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJcVEJ1a6eg&t=4660s
    - regisg 5y ago
      Wrong, try again. It's a lie.
  - regisg 5y ago
    They didn't. The scaling path is well known : Optimizations, Input Endorsers, Hydra.
- thepasswordis 5y ago
  The project is kindof finished isn't it? The founders managed to scam their way into a top 5 coin for a while, got rich AF, and never had to actually deliver any sort of product. Their ineptitude got laid pretty bare when their "smart contracts" were finally released, and only able to process something like one transaction per day or something absurd like that. As far as I can tell, even the cringey youtube livestreams have ended at this point. I genuinely don't think that anybody involved with that absolute disaster of a project care. They'll just release more declarations that things are coming eventually, obfuscate everything with more confusing sounding names for things, make more vague promises about "Africa", and deliver nothing while enriching themselves.
  - ghostwriter 5y ago
    > only able to process something like one transaction per day or something absurd like that. why are you blatantly lying? [1]: To split the logic across different branches and enforce more parallelism, it is essential to build DApps and other solutions using multiple UTXOs. This provides benefits in terms of scaling, just like developing Bitcoin services prerequisites splitting one wallet into sub wallets. DApps built on Cardano are not limited to one transaction per block. In fact, the block budget (that is the maximum number of transactions it can hold) allows the execution of hundreds of simple transactions and several complex scripts. However, the eUTXO model allows spending a transaction output only once. Given that users can face contention issues trying to access the same UTXO, it is important to use many different UTXOs. Note that this is important unless such a design would benefit from a strict ordering of clients. Sets of UTXOs can be used to implement design patterns that include semaphores. In addition, different users can interact with one smart contract without any concurrency failure. [1] https://iohk.io/en/blog/posts/2021/09/10/concurrency-and-all-that-cardano-smart-contracts-and-the-eutxo-model/ https://iohk.io/en/blog/posts/2021/09/10/concurrency-and-all...
    - thepasswordis 5y ago
      Maybe it changed? I know when the smart contracts were finally released, there was a bunch of discussion about only being able to do one transaction per day, or per block, or per wallet per day, or per wallet per block per day or something ridiculously small like that. It doesn't matter if it's one transaction per day, or one transaction per block per wallet per day or whatever they eventually got it to. That is way, way too slow. (I could be wrong about this. I pulled the ripcord on cardano when I started seeing the extremely bizarre youtube livestreams about vaccines, and the bizzare, 5 hour word salad interview with lex friedman.)
- regisg 5y ago
  > They finally submitted and confirmed rollups were better Again, it's a lie : Can you provide a link to an official statement made by IOHK about this ? No, of course : Input endorsers is the official path for scaling, it's not a surprise : they are part of the first 2016 Ouroboros paper. There are some experiments on Rollups because it can have use cases, but there are no official statement about using Rollups.
  - tata71 5y ago
    > There are some experiments on Rollups because it can have use cases waits for 2nd and 3rd weeks of December
    - regisg 5y ago
      No time to waste, I'm learning Plutus. :-)
    - marcoslozada 5y ago
      Arbitrum has good rollups. Ee are working on a descentralizad cloud storage using blockchain. It works quite good
kristofferR 5y ago
Haskell as the contract language is one, they've made the developer barrier to entry comically high.
- exdsq 5y ago
  They’re working on Marlowe and Blockly to reduce that barrier though. I spoke to Charles a while back and got the sense he’d have used a different language if he’d done it again.
- regisg 5y ago
  Solidity is a minefield language... Plutus is way better
  - hanniabu 5y ago
    It's not a minefield
    - tata71 5y ago
      Neither of you are adding any information — could you? Actually very interested.
      - regisg 5y ago
        On Ethereum, Solidity has access to the global state of the blockchain and it's very hard do create secure program with it. Cardano's language Plutus has only access to UTXOs ( bitcoin way to manage account) and store a local state in it. It's really functional programming applied to the blockchain space. The language is functional ( Haskell subset ) and the ledger too. One advantage of this design is that fees are deterministic. For a given transaction input you will have exactly the same fees.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]

hanniabu 5y ago

One straight forward one is their scaling. They would bash ethereum's developers saying how stupid they are and cardano spent years on research papers without any practical experience to come up with off-chain payment channels. Just recently (a week ago?) They finally submitted and confirmed rollups were better and that they'd start working on those. But with their speed of development, grifting founder, and more interest in marketing than building, I don't expect them to finish any time soon or be relevant.

exdsq 5y ago
Cardano does have significant benefits though. For example native tokens rather than wrapping things in smart contracts saves a lot of space, computation, and expense.
- tata71 5y ago
  Cardano can have xyz benefit — are they too late to get traction? It looks to me like first mover advantage, and community support, are carrying Ethereum off into the sunset.
  - exdsq 5y ago
    Maybe! I do trust in Cardanos robustness so there could be a move towards them if something goes wrong in an Ethereum fork, or if the fees don’t come down. However I think Ethereum may be the JavaScript of blockchain - imperfect, but the winner nonetheless.
  - marcoslozada 5y ago
    Yes, Cardano audits are really late
    - exdsq 5y ago
      What do you mean by "Cardano audits are really late"?
- lostmsu 5y ago
  What happens, when the structure of a typical token contract changes?
  - exdsq 5y ago
    I don't know when this would happen - it'd be a big deal, like a fork I think. The point is on Ethereum we might create an ERC-20 token for NewCoin that wraps it and then all of our interactions with NewCoin is via smart contracts. On Cardano these would be native to the chain in the same way as Ether is on Ethereum (or Ada on Cardano). If you need a layer of logic over the token you'd need to introduce a smart contract but for things like transferring, getting supply, etc, it's the same as doing that for Ether on Ethereum - they're essentially primitive functions on the chain.
apatheticnpc 5y ago
when did they say that rollups are better and that they'd switch to them?
- hanniabu 5y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJcVEJ1a6eg&t=4660s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJcVEJ1a6eg&t=4660s
  - regisg 5y ago
    Wrong, try again. It's a lie.
- regisg 5y ago
  They didn't. The scaling path is well known : Optimizations, Input Endorsers, Hydra.
thepasswordis 5y ago
The project is kindof finished isn't it? The founders managed to scam their way into a top 5 coin for a while, got rich AF, and never had to actually deliver any sort of product. Their ineptitude got laid pretty bare when their "smart contracts" were finally released, and only able to process something like one transaction per day or something absurd like that. As far as I can tell, even the cringey youtube livestreams have ended at this point. I genuinely don't think that anybody involved with that absolute disaster of a project care. They'll just release more declarations that things are coming eventually, obfuscate everything with more confusing sounding names for things, make more vague promises about "Africa", and deliver nothing while enriching themselves.
- ghostwriter 5y ago
  > only able to process something like one transaction per day or something absurd like that. why are you blatantly lying? [1]: To split the logic across different branches and enforce more parallelism, it is essential to build DApps and other solutions using multiple UTXOs. This provides benefits in terms of scaling, just like developing Bitcoin services prerequisites splitting one wallet into sub wallets. DApps built on Cardano are not limited to one transaction per block. In fact, the block budget (that is the maximum number of transactions it can hold) allows the execution of hundreds of simple transactions and several complex scripts. However, the eUTXO model allows spending a transaction output only once. Given that users can face contention issues trying to access the same UTXO, it is important to use many different UTXOs. Note that this is important unless such a design would benefit from a strict ordering of clients. Sets of UTXOs can be used to implement design patterns that include semaphores. In addition, different users can interact with one smart contract without any concurrency failure. [1] https://iohk.io/en/blog/posts/2021/09/10/concurrency-and-all-that-cardano-smart-contracts-and-the-eutxo-model/ https://iohk.io/en/blog/posts/2021/09/10/concurrency-and-all...
  - thepasswordis 5y ago
    Maybe it changed? I know when the smart contracts were finally released, there was a bunch of discussion about only being able to do one transaction per day, or per block, or per wallet per day, or per wallet per block per day or something ridiculously small like that. It doesn't matter if it's one transaction per day, or one transaction per block per wallet per day or whatever they eventually got it to. That is way, way too slow. (I could be wrong about this. I pulled the ripcord on cardano when I started seeing the extremely bizarre youtube livestreams about vaccines, and the bizzare, 5 hour word salad interview with lex friedman.)
regisg 5y ago
> They finally submitted and confirmed rollups were better Again, it's a lie : Can you provide a link to an official statement made by IOHK about this ? No, of course : Input endorsers is the official path for scaling, it's not a surprise : they are part of the first 2016 Ouroboros paper. There are some experiments on Rollups because it can have use cases, but there are no official statement about using Rollups.
- tata71 5y ago
  > There are some experiments on Rollups because it can have use cases waits for 2nd and 3rd weeks of December
  - regisg 5y ago
    No time to waste, I'm learning Plutus. :-)
  - marcoslozada 5y ago
    Arbitrum has good rollups. Ee are working on a descentralizad cloud storage using blockchain. It works quite good

kristofferR 5y ago

Haskell as the contract language is one, they've made the developer barrier to entry comically high.

exdsq 5y ago
They’re working on Marlowe and Blockly to reduce that barrier though. I spoke to Charles a while back and got the sense he’d have used a different language if he’d done it again.
regisg 5y ago
Solidity is a minefield language... Plutus is way better
- hanniabu 5y ago
  It's not a minefield
  - tata71 5y ago
    Neither of you are adding any information — could you? Actually very interested.
    - regisg 5y ago
      On Ethereum, Solidity has access to the global state of the blockchain and it's very hard do create secure program with it. Cardano's language Plutus has only access to UTXOs ( bitcoin way to manage account) and store a local state in it. It's really functional programming applied to the blockchain space. The language is functional ( Haskell subset ) and the ledger too. One advantage of this design is that fees are deterministic. For a given transaction input you will have exactly the same fees.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]