5 ms·

Let's go back to your original point: That the PinePhone and Librem 5 are mentioned too often, and that (sorry if I get this slightly wrong) people should pay m

by linmob 5y ago

Let's go back to your original point: That the PinePhone and Librem 5 are mentioned too often, and that (sorry if I get this slightly wrong) people should pay more attention to the Planet Computer Products, and devices supported by the UBports and postmarketOS projects. Why are PP and L5 mentioned so often? They are available as new devices and that apparently has some value of its own in our society. They also have "unique" hardware features of arguably questionable usability (hardware kill switches), and are being used by many mobile Linux developers. That's why they are popular. It's not a conspiracy. Regarding the Gemini and the Cosmo: While nice products in principle, they by design only attract a niche of users that want this form factor. While they in theory have Linux ports, these (except for the Sailfish X port for the Gemini) are unmaintained. Debian 9 "Stretch" is just not enough these days. Therefore and because the main Android OS also feels rather abandoned, there's not much interest in these devices. I would love to use them more, but there's just no interesting software and I don't have the time and resources currently to get that Debian port back to an acceptable state. With regards to postmarketOS or Ubuntu Touch devices, especially those that also run postmarketOS stable (Community devices) I wholeheartedly agree. They do deserve more attention. These are really nice devices that are well supported and cheaply available. But, sadly, having been a content creator in that field for a while I can tell you: Videos about these devices get way less clicks. This might be the self-amplifying effect that leads to less interest into these devices. It's sad, and if I ever make another video, I'll make it about a non-PINE, non-Librem phone only to then be asked in the comments why I don't share an update on the PinePhone or Librem 5 instead.

GhettoComputers 5y ago
Thanks for that point of view. I watched a few single Linux on Android devices videos, but there’s never many of them, almost one or two only per device but I see countless pine videos saying the same things I read about or giving no new information besides the usual boring “this still does not work unless you want a buggy tablet shaped like a phone”. I don’t think it’s a conspiracy as much as an irrational trend. I learned here why the Cosmo and Gemini aren’t good, but it’s not the only device that came with Linux that was ignored, there was a Meizu MX4 Ubuntu Edition with kernel code available but no interest. https://github.com/meizuosc/m75 https://github.com/meizuosc/m75 To me it looks like it’s just marketing that those 2 are popular.
- coffeecat 5y ago
  > To me it looks like it’s just marketing that those 2 are popular. And that's the killer feature! Librem/Pine have managed to build a community around their hardware. In theory, I could buy a Meizu phone and pick up its PostMarket OS port at the point where the last guy who tried it gave up. But trying to do it without a community would be no fun at all, and finding answers once you run into a roadblock will be an uphill battle. For instance, one of Meizu's kernel repositories has an unanswered issue from a few years ago, asking if they can release more up-to-date kernel code. You're just focusing on the hardware's specs, but the community is what gives Librem/Pine's hardware its value.
  - GhettoComputers 5y ago
    Both are old hardware that are phone shape devices that can’t be used as a phone. This would be exciting with cool hardware, but librem is more than an iPhone with no functionality, and the pine’s hardware as an SBC wasn’t even fully functional and still isn’t, I don’t expect either to succeed over a OPO 6T with postmarketOS.
    - coffeecat 5y ago
      What exactly do you mean by "phone-shaped devices"? People can and do use the Librem and the original PinePhone as a primary phone. Calling, SMS, mobile data, and even MMS work at this point (however, MMS support is very recent). The original PinePhone's hardware is slow, but users of the lightweight SXMO UI report getting good responsiveness. The maker of Librem has software developers on their payroll, and their price reflects that - unlike with cheaper Android devices, you're subsidizing the development of userspace software when you buy a Librem. And you're subsidizing kernel-level development that's done "the right way" (mainlining), as opposed to the cheapest-viable-kernel-with-no-updates approach that most Android devices take. At $450, the PinePhone Pro with Pine64's keyboard attachment has roughly comparable hardware specs to the Gemini that you link to in the original post. The Gemini sells for $680. The state of hardware support in regard to the OnePlus is exciting - nothing wrong with going that route if you want more bang for your buck on hardware specs. Personally, I've opted for the PinePhone Pro because I don't need state-of-the-art hardware, and I value the community and the option of using FOSS firmware on its cell modem.

by linmob 5y ago

GhettoComputers 5y ago

Thanks for that point of view. I watched a few single Linux on Android devices videos, but there’s never many of them, almost one or two only per device but I see countless pine videos saying the same things I read about or giving no new information besides the usual boring “this still does not work unless you want a buggy tablet shaped like a phone”. I don’t think it’s a conspiracy as much as an irrational trend. I learned here why the Cosmo and Gemini aren’t good, but it’s not the only device that came with Linux that was ignored, there was a Meizu MX4 Ubuntu Edition with kernel code available but no interest. https://github.com/meizuosc/m75 https://github.com/meizuosc/m75 To me it looks like it’s just marketing that those 2 are popular.

coffeecat 5y ago
> To me it looks like it’s just marketing that those 2 are popular. And that's the killer feature! Librem/Pine have managed to build a community around their hardware. In theory, I could buy a Meizu phone and pick up its PostMarket OS port at the point where the last guy who tried it gave up. But trying to do it without a community would be no fun at all, and finding answers once you run into a roadblock will be an uphill battle. For instance, one of Meizu's kernel repositories has an unanswered issue from a few years ago, asking if they can release more up-to-date kernel code. You're just focusing on the hardware's specs, but the community is what gives Librem/Pine's hardware its value.
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  Both are old hardware that are phone shape devices that can’t be used as a phone. This would be exciting with cool hardware, but librem is more than an iPhone with no functionality, and the pine’s hardware as an SBC wasn’t even fully functional and still isn’t, I don’t expect either to succeed over a OPO 6T with postmarketOS.
  - coffeecat 5y ago
    What exactly do you mean by "phone-shaped devices"? People can and do use the Librem and the original PinePhone as a primary phone. Calling, SMS, mobile data, and even MMS work at this point (however, MMS support is very recent). The original PinePhone's hardware is slow, but users of the lightweight SXMO UI report getting good responsiveness. The maker of Librem has software developers on their payroll, and their price reflects that - unlike with cheaper Android devices, you're subsidizing the development of userspace software when you buy a Librem. And you're subsidizing kernel-level development that's done "the right way" (mainlining), as opposed to the cheapest-viable-kernel-with-no-updates approach that most Android devices take. At $450, the PinePhone Pro with Pine64's keyboard attachment has roughly comparable hardware specs to the Gemini that you link to in the original post. The Gemini sells for $680. The state of hardware support in regard to the OnePlus is exciting - nothing wrong with going that route if you want more bang for your buck on hardware specs. Personally, I've opted for the PinePhone Pro because I don't need state-of-the-art hardware, and I value the community and the option of using FOSS firmware on its cell modem.