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Why does that matter? 5.14 drops IDE support and lots of other old hardware, nothing is forever. You thought they’d support basically useless hardware nobody us

Why does that matter? 5.14 drops IDE support and lots of other old hardware, nothing is forever. You thought they’d support basically useless hardware nobody uses forever? How many years of “lifetime” do you realistically expect out of the slow Pinephone or Librem 5 hardware? Even sold new they’re ancient parts, how is using old weak hardware and selling it as a new smartphone of all electronics not obviously planned obsolescence? It’s possible someone will volunteer to keep updating the hardware drivers to phones that will be killed by the minimum requirements being raised and network changes but I see the hardware as obsolete already.

fsflover 5y ago
> nothing is forever How long is a single Linux version supported? My 12+-year-old laptop currently runs latest Debian, and I don't expect that it's support will end soon. Why would the phones be different? The whole point of L5 and PP is that they are like desktops running desktop OS. Even old Raspberry Pis can serve for good today. The Moor's law is gone. > How many years of “lifetime” do you realistically expect out of the slow Pinephone or Librem 5 hardware? I expect >10 years. Why do I have to change my phones every 3 years and multiply e-waste? The phones (especially L5) can do practically everything, except heavy calculations. They can also serve as thin clients for the latter. Much older Linux phone OpenMoko is still supported, and there is a community for it. > how is using old weak hardware and selling it as a new smartphone of all electronics not obviously planned obsolescence? It sort of is, but it's due to the lack of modern free-software-supporting vendors. By buying these two phones, you vote for such hardware with your wallet (I did).
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  Was that laptop a low end one with repackaged older hardware that wasn’t functional out of box and had no drivers or support? What can that laptop, openmoku or a raspberry pi do that someone would care about? How is selling old nonfunctional hardware not planned obsolescence?
  - fsflover 5y ago
    > Was that laptop a low end one with repackaged older hardware that wasn’t functional out of box and had no drivers or support? At the time it was a high-end laptop with perfectly functioning Windows out of the box. Debian still allows to browse the Internet (not bloated websites), use ssh and Libreoffice. The camera does not work anymore, because the Linux driver does not exist and the Windows driver was proprietary with undisclosed documentation. This is the same planned obsolescence I am talking about. > What can that laptop, openmoku or a raspberry pi do that someone would care about? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20264911 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20264911 > How is selling old nonfunctional hardware not planned obsolescence? Who is selling nonfunctional hardware?

fsflover 5y ago

> nothing is forever How long is a single Linux version supported? My 12+-year-old laptop currently runs latest Debian, and I don't expect that it's support will end soon. Why would the phones be different? The whole point of L5 and PP is that they are like desktops running desktop OS. Even old Raspberry Pis can serve for good today. The Moor's law is gone. > How many years of “lifetime” do you realistically expect out of the slow Pinephone or Librem 5 hardware? I expect >10 years. Why do I have to change my phones every 3 years and multiply e-waste? The phones (especially L5) can do practically everything, except heavy calculations. They can also serve as thin clients for the latter. Much older Linux phone OpenMoko is still supported, and there is a community for it. > how is using old weak hardware and selling it as a new smartphone of all electronics not obviously planned obsolescence? It sort of is, but it's due to the lack of modern free-software-supporting vendors. By buying these two phones, you vote for such hardware with your wallet (I did).

GhettoComputers 5y ago
Was that laptop a low end one with repackaged older hardware that wasn’t functional out of box and had no drivers or support? What can that laptop, openmoku or a raspberry pi do that someone would care about? How is selling old nonfunctional hardware not planned obsolescence?
- fsflover 5y ago
  > Was that laptop a low end one with repackaged older hardware that wasn’t functional out of box and had no drivers or support? At the time it was a high-end laptop with perfectly functioning Windows out of the box. Debian still allows to browse the Internet (not bloated websites), use ssh and Libreoffice. The camera does not work anymore, because the Linux driver does not exist and the Windows driver was proprietary with undisclosed documentation. This is the same planned obsolescence I am talking about. > What can that laptop, openmoku or a raspberry pi do that someone would care about? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20264911 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20264911 > How is selling old nonfunctional hardware not planned obsolescence? Who is selling nonfunctional hardware?