3 ms·

NB four and fore are sound the same in some accents

lproven 5y ago
Thank you for so delicately pointing out the problem/joke here -- I hadn't noticed it, not even back then. My question is: in what English accents do "four" and "fore" *not* sound alike?
- rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
  This is the Horse-Hoarse merger. [1] > Accents that have resisted the merger include most Scottish, Caribbean, and older Southern American accents as well as some African American, modern Southern American, Indian, Irish, and older Maine accents. If my understanding is correct, in some accents that don't pronounce their "R"s at the end of words, the vowel shape changes slightly while pronouncing "four," but "fore" is pronounced with a simple vowel. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-language_vowel_changes_before_historic_/r/#Horse%E2%80%93hoarse_merger https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-language_vowel_changes...
  - lproven 5y ago
    Fascinating. Thank you. It is extremely hard for me to even _imagine_ this, as apparently my native accents both contain this merger. This is a rare experience for me, but a previous occurrence was discussing the rhotic-R phenomenon.
  - aasasd 5y ago
    Wiktionary sometimes comes handy in such musings, because it has IPA spellings and recordings of pronunciations, and marks the dialects—not always but frequently for more popular words. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fore https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fore https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/four https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/four The IPA suggests that pronunciations of the two words are identical both with and without the merger, but I'm no specialist.
    - rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
      Just dug a little deeper, and I've arrived at this conclusion: In accents with the merger, "four," "for," and "fore" are all always homophones. In accents without the merger, "four" and "for" are never homophones. And in some subset of these non-merged accents, "fore" may be pronounced identically to "four" (as listed in the IPA guide in your first link). In another subset, it may be pronounced identically to "for" (as implied by the "Homophones" section in that same link).
ConceptJunkie 5y ago
Definitely true for American accents.
ziml77 5y ago
Thank you. This is what it took for me to realize why version 4 might be an issue. If I just saw "4 skin" I certainly would have gotten it. Somehow adding Winamp in front made it hard for me to interpret it the alternative way.
agumonkey 5y ago
And now I have a totally different view on the smooth jazz band named fourplay

Thank you for so delicately pointing out the problem/joke here -- I hadn't noticed it, not even back then. My question is: in what English accents do "four" and "fore" *not* sound alike?

rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
This is the Horse-Hoarse merger. [1] > Accents that have resisted the merger include most Scottish, Caribbean, and older Southern American accents as well as some African American, modern Southern American, Indian, Irish, and older Maine accents. If my understanding is correct, in some accents that don't pronounce their "R"s at the end of words, the vowel shape changes slightly while pronouncing "four," but "fore" is pronounced with a simple vowel. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-language_vowel_changes_before_historic_/r/#Horse%E2%80%93hoarse_merger https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-language_vowel_changes...
- lproven 5y ago
  Fascinating. Thank you. It is extremely hard for me to even _imagine_ this, as apparently my native accents both contain this merger. This is a rare experience for me, but a previous occurrence was discussing the rhotic-R phenomenon.
- aasasd 5y ago
  Wiktionary sometimes comes handy in such musings, because it has IPA spellings and recordings of pronunciations, and marks the dialects—not always but frequently for more popular words. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fore https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fore https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/four https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/four The IPA suggests that pronunciations of the two words are identical both with and without the merger, but I'm no specialist.
  - rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
    Just dug a little deeper, and I've arrived at this conclusion: In accents with the merger, "four," "for," and "fore" are all always homophones. In accents without the merger, "four" and "for" are never homophones. And in some subset of these non-merged accents, "fore" may be pronounced identically to "four" (as listed in the IPA guide in your first link). In another subset, it may be pronounced identically to "for" (as implied by the "Homophones" section in that same link).

ConceptJunkie 5y ago

Definitely true for American accents.

ziml77 5y ago

Thank you. This is what it took for me to realize why version 4 might be an issue. If I just saw "4 skin" I certainly would have gotten it. Somehow adding Winamp in front made it hard for me to interpret it the alternative way.

agumonkey 5y ago

And now I have a totally different view on the smooth jazz band named fourplay