7 ms·

thats funny I've always found jetbrains IDE to be error ridden annoyances where I end up spending more time dealing with problems the IDE has caused than develo

by jatone 5y ago

thats funny I've always found jetbrains IDE to be error ridden annoyances where I end up spending more time dealing with problems the IDE has caused than developing software.

wpietri 5y ago
I think that's not the typical experience. I've certainly gotten occasional errors, but for me it's been a solid and reliable set of tools over the years. I started using it for Java, and have since used their Ruby, Python, and webdev versions happily for many thousands of hours.
- jatone 5y ago
  it was primarily android and gradle issues honestly within its jetbrains IDE. jetbrains itself has performance issues, and you need to muck around too much to get them working properly. the JVM also causes issues resulting it having to tune the environment params to get decent performance. JB makes tons of assumptions and attempts to be helpful in ways that just are not; precompiling automatically, running massive indexing jobs causing the machine to bog down, assuming it has the right to modify your environment. these are all things I just do not want to think about when in essence I'm navigating directories and editing files with fancy hover tooltips. the standalone versions are okay usually depends on the language. I just want an editor with code linting regardless of the language. vscode in that respect has been a god send. install language server and you're done. performance is generally good and the background tasks seem thus far havent completely bogged down my machine.
  - wpietri 5y ago
    Yeah, if you just want a text editor and not an IDE, you probably shouldn't be using an IDE. Those things that are "just not" helpful to you are very helpful to others. Personally, I very much want an actual IDE for a lot of my work. So I'm happy to buy a fast machine with plenty of RAM and then give the IDE a good chunk of it. But I'm glad they're making Fleet for folks with other preferences, and I'm sure I'll be using it myself when I just need to open one or two files and make quick edits.
    - jatone 5y ago
      no I want my IDE to be functional without destroying my system performance or fucking up my codebase. jet brains is a massive offender here. it doesn't need to be. I have a giant machine ~128GB of RAM and 24 cores. the fact I have to tune my IDE is insane. the not helpful issues with jetbrains are when it crashes, slows down my system, prevents me from modifying files because reasons, modifies my build configurations in unsafe ways because it thinks it knows best, interferes with CLI run commands because it doesn't safely check that it can modify files owned by other applications. I'll grant you these are generally issues with the individual plugins within jetbrains. why deal with all that when I don't have to? Why deal with the performance issues the JVM has when I don't have to? vscode I get autocomplete, debuggers, decent linting, decent performance. that's an IDE in a nutshell. not a text editor. I'm happy you enjoy JB, great. it doesn't change any of the above and havent seen any indicators that the above has changed or will change in the future for it. hence I don't use it. fleet may be promising in this regard. but don't feel the need to jump ship when I already have remote code editing in vscode. which is the only real first class feature fleet has to distinguish itself from other IDEs.
      - wpietri 5y ago
        That's just very different than my experience. Across a number of years and a few different major languages, from coding solo to working with teams. The only tuning I have to do is to tell it that using more RAM is ok. I'm sorry you're having those problems, and if you ever want to dig in on fixing them, drop me a line. But please understand it's pretty far off the median experience.
        jatone 5y ago
        while I appreciate the offer; there is nothing to dig into here. jetbrains just doesn't bring anything to the table compared to other options. and it lost my trust on reliability in a massive way due to android studio and never really performing well at its core function, writing software, compared to things like sublime, vscode, even vim/emacs; once configured. and if I'm going to pay for something like an IDE it needs to be rock solid when the free competition is competent.
KronisLV 5y ago
> I've always found jetbrains IDE to be error ridden annoyances where I end up spending more time dealing with problems the IDE has caused than developing software. My personal experience has been pretty much the opposite of this, as someone that uses Java almost every day and other languages occasionally (.NET, Python, PHP, Ruby, JS/TS, SQL, a little bit of Go). If i had to rank all of the IDEs that i've used from the most productive/stable to the least, it'd go about like this: - IntelliJ IDEA: the best way to write Java, and the best of JetBrains' products, period - most other JetBrains IDEs: Rider (a bit slow, but a lot of good features), PyCharm (slow to start, but nice to use), PhpStorm (no complaints, it's just that Laravel refactoring is way behind what Java gives you), RubyMine (one of the better options for Rails, despite its dynamic nature, autocomplete just works), WebStorm (a pretty good way to write JS/TS, even with some outdated and obscure codebases, like ES5 with AngularJS and no webpack), DataGrip (a bit niche since other IDEs cover a lot of the other functionality, but also present in the ecosystem), Goland (just recently started using, similarly usable); all of those are definitely worth the Ultimate subscription of their products IMO - Visual Studio: a pretty good IDE that has a similarly slow startup to Rider but feels good afterwards, especially for developing against Windows and doing .NET, perhaps better than Rider in some regards, though i hate the VS Installer with a passion, still haven't removed all of the crap it installed, years later, and the checkboxes for the features you may/may not want are confusing and it's a massive waste of space (though i guess the Python etc. integrations are nice for some + Azure stuff); also has the most tutorials for it out there - NetBeans: my darling a few years ago, completely free, reasonably capable and has some other tooling based on it (e.g. jMonkeyEngine SDK), if it had better framework integration and wasn't so dead, i'd gladly keep using it, since the keybindings are perhaps some of the most sane i've ever seen; also supports PHP and C/C++, but those are a bit weaker here; also really slows down with large projects - Eclipse: i hate Eclipse, some people swear by its workflows, but i've used plenty of horrible software that decided to use it as a platform and did so poorly (4EM tools, model driven development tools for generating source code, some random remote'ish development platforms) though it's also really poor on its own, as a regular Java IDE; unhelpful, inconsistent and slow - Android Studio: perhaps one of the few tools that are worse than Eclipse (aside from obscure SWI-Prolog IDEs and some ASM IDEs), i don't know what went so wrong here, but it's slow, chugs memory, makes the CPU hit 100% usage with 4 cores and just generally feels like a bad solution, i'm not sure where JetBrains went wrong, but since last trying it about 3-4 years ago, i haven't picked it back up since I'd probably put some other IDEs, like QtCreator near Visual Studio, but i don't have enough experience with it or C/C++ development myself to say for sure. Apart from that, VS Code would be near the top as far as snappiness goes and near the bottom as far as features go (or in the middle with enough plugins, provided that nothing breaks). That's about it, each IDE has its advantages and disadvantages. For example, even IntelliJ might need you to dig through the VM and memory options when you want to open projects that approach 1M SLoC, since the defaults might not be good enough. Oh, and in regards to DB tools, MySQL Workbench would have the #1 spot (since the modelling and forward/backward engineering and schema sync functionality is to die for, when planning things), DataGrip the #2, pgAdmin the 3# (the UI just feels non-native and bad, cumbersome to use, unresponsive) and SQL Developer would be near the bottom, after whatever else software i'd decide to list (horrible whenever you try to do anything apart from just writing and executing SQL, e.g. the modelling bits have failed to save and later re-open files pretty consistently).

by jatone 5y ago

thats funny I've always found jetbrains IDE to be error ridden annoyances where I end up spending more time dealing with problems the IDE has caused than developing software.

wpietri 5y ago

I think that's not the typical experience. I've certainly gotten occasional errors, but for me it's been a solid and reliable set of tools over the years. I started using it for Java, and have since used their Ruby, Python, and webdev versions happily for many thousands of hours.

jatone 5y ago
it was primarily android and gradle issues honestly within its jetbrains IDE. jetbrains itself has performance issues, and you need to muck around too much to get them working properly. the JVM also causes issues resulting it having to tune the environment params to get decent performance. JB makes tons of assumptions and attempts to be helpful in ways that just are not; precompiling automatically, running massive indexing jobs causing the machine to bog down, assuming it has the right to modify your environment. these are all things I just do not want to think about when in essence I'm navigating directories and editing files with fancy hover tooltips. the standalone versions are okay usually depends on the language. I just want an editor with code linting regardless of the language. vscode in that respect has been a god send. install language server and you're done. performance is generally good and the background tasks seem thus far havent completely bogged down my machine.
- wpietri 5y ago
  Yeah, if you just want a text editor and not an IDE, you probably shouldn't be using an IDE. Those things that are "just not" helpful to you are very helpful to others. Personally, I very much want an actual IDE for a lot of my work. So I'm happy to buy a fast machine with plenty of RAM and then give the IDE a good chunk of it. But I'm glad they're making Fleet for folks with other preferences, and I'm sure I'll be using it myself when I just need to open one or two files and make quick edits.
  - jatone 5y ago
    no I want my IDE to be functional without destroying my system performance or fucking up my codebase. jet brains is a massive offender here. it doesn't need to be. I have a giant machine ~128GB of RAM and 24 cores. the fact I have to tune my IDE is insane. the not helpful issues with jetbrains are when it crashes, slows down my system, prevents me from modifying files because reasons, modifies my build configurations in unsafe ways because it thinks it knows best, interferes with CLI run commands because it doesn't safely check that it can modify files owned by other applications. I'll grant you these are generally issues with the individual plugins within jetbrains. why deal with all that when I don't have to? Why deal with the performance issues the JVM has when I don't have to? vscode I get autocomplete, debuggers, decent linting, decent performance. that's an IDE in a nutshell. not a text editor. I'm happy you enjoy JB, great. it doesn't change any of the above and havent seen any indicators that the above has changed or will change in the future for it. hence I don't use it. fleet may be promising in this regard. but don't feel the need to jump ship when I already have remote code editing in vscode. which is the only real first class feature fleet has to distinguish itself from other IDEs.
    - wpietri 5y ago
      That's just very different than my experience. Across a number of years and a few different major languages, from coding solo to working with teams. The only tuning I have to do is to tell it that using more RAM is ok. I'm sorry you're having those problems, and if you ever want to dig in on fixing them, drop me a line. But please understand it's pretty far off the median experience.
      - jatone 5y ago
        while I appreciate the offer; there is nothing to dig into here. jetbrains just doesn't bring anything to the table compared to other options. and it lost my trust on reliability in a massive way due to android studio and never really performing well at its core function, writing software, compared to things like sublime, vscode, even vim/emacs; once configured. and if I'm going to pay for something like an IDE it needs to be rock solid when the free competition is competent.

KronisLV 5y ago

> I've always found jetbrains IDE to be error ridden annoyances where I end up spending more time dealing with problems the IDE has caused than developing software. My personal experience has been pretty much the opposite of this, as someone that uses Java almost every day and other languages occasionally (.NET, Python, PHP, Ruby, JS/TS, SQL, a little bit of Go). If i had to rank all of the IDEs that i've used from the most productive/stable to the least, it'd go about like this: - IntelliJ IDEA: the best way to write Java, and the best of JetBrains' products, period - most other JetBrains IDEs: Rider (a bit slow, but a lot of good features), PyCharm (slow to start, but nice to use), PhpStorm (no complaints, it's just that Laravel refactoring is way behind what Java gives you), RubyMine (one of the better options for Rails, despite its dynamic nature, autocomplete just works), WebStorm (a pretty good way to write JS/TS, even with some outdated and obscure codebases, like ES5 with AngularJS and no webpack), DataGrip (a bit niche since other IDEs cover a lot of the other functionality, but also present in the ecosystem), Goland (just recently started using, similarly usable); all of those are definitely worth the Ultimate subscription of their products IMO - Visual Studio: a pretty good IDE that has a similarly slow startup to Rider but feels good afterwards, especially for developing against Windows and doing .NET, perhaps better than Rider in some regards, though i hate the VS Installer with a passion, still haven't removed all of the crap it installed, years later, and the checkboxes for the features you may/may not want are confusing and it's a massive waste of space (though i guess the Python etc. integrations are nice for some + Azure stuff); also has the most tutorials for it out there - NetBeans: my darling a few years ago, completely free, reasonably capable and has some other tooling based on it (e.g. jMonkeyEngine SDK), if it had better framework integration and wasn't so dead, i'd gladly keep using it, since the keybindings are perhaps some of the most sane i've ever seen; also supports PHP and C/C++, but those are a bit weaker here; also really slows down with large projects - Eclipse: i hate Eclipse, some people swear by its workflows, but i've used plenty of horrible software that decided to use it as a platform and did so poorly (4EM tools, model driven development tools for generating source code, some random remote'ish development platforms) though it's also really poor on its own, as a regular Java IDE; unhelpful, inconsistent and slow - Android Studio: perhaps one of the few tools that are worse than Eclipse (aside from obscure SWI-Prolog IDEs and some ASM IDEs), i don't know what went so wrong here, but it's slow, chugs memory, makes the CPU hit 100% usage with 4 cores and just generally feels like a bad solution, i'm not sure where JetBrains went wrong, but since last trying it about 3-4 years ago, i haven't picked it back up since I'd probably put some other IDEs, like QtCreator near Visual Studio, but i don't have enough experience with it or C/C++ development myself to say for sure. Apart from that, VS Code would be near the top as far as snappiness goes and near the bottom as far as features go (or in the middle with enough plugins, provided that nothing breaks). That's about it, each IDE has its advantages and disadvantages. For example, even IntelliJ might need you to dig through the VM and memory options when you want to open projects that approach 1M SLoC, since the defaults might not be good enough. Oh, and in regards to DB tools, MySQL Workbench would have the #1 spot (since the modelling and forward/backward engineering and schema sync functionality is to die for, when planning things), DataGrip the #2, pgAdmin the 3# (the UI just feels non-native and bad, cumbersome to use, unresponsive) and SQL Developer would be near the bottom, after whatever else software i'd decide to list (horrible whenever you try to do anything apart from just writing and executing SQL, e.g. the modelling bits have failed to save and later re-open files pretty consistently).