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I'm afraid that, at one point in time, a DMCA takedown might backfire at the archive. I mean, it has been taken down on Github, but it's of course available at

I'm afraid that, at one point in time, a DMCA takedown might backfire at the archive. I mean, it has been taken down on Github, but it's of course available at archive.org - it would hurt the internet as a whole if the archive needs to close it's doors. Hopefully that will never happen.

Cthulhu_ 5y ago
It depends on whether Github or Winamp can be arsed; given that it's been posted on HN now, they are probably on the trail now. Archive.org can't just ignore a DMCA takedown, that would threaten their safe haven status.
- gmueckl 5y ago
  Winamp at this point in time is just a trademark that ended up at a Belgian company. And I think they want to use it to launch a music streaming service. The rest of Nullsoft went down with AOL. I wonder which party would even have the legal rights to move against such a source code leak.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - garaetjjte 5y ago
    They are claiming they have rights to the code too: "I am acting on behalf of AudioValley SA who currently owns the copyright to the Winamp code after a purchase from AOL."
  - RF_Savage 5y ago
    I wonder what happened to NSIS, the NullSoft InstallSystem? Used it myself as a teen to have a professional looking installer for my software releases. I still occasionally see software with NSIS installers and Nullsoft copyright. So I wonder what entity is behind it now days.
    - garaetjjte 5y ago
      NSIS is open source, seems to be maintained by the community.
    - thedoctor_o 5y ago
      NSIS has nothing to do with the lot that own Winamp & it was a clearly defined "not part of the sale" as it has been OSS from early on around it's v1.0 iirc which was a long long time before Winamp was eventually sold. I still think they should be using their own forum with an archive of the NSIS sub-forum to ensure that there's a clear distinction between them & the lot that now own Winamp (as there's no benefit for them to be keeping that forum running other than a trickle of ad revenue) but that's down to those that lead NSIS to decide upon. -dro
dmos62 5y ago
We should have infrastructure for sharing things like this without putting a centralized entity like archive.org in the crosshairs. Bittorrent comes to mind, but it could only be part of the solution.
- danlugo92 5y ago
  https://gun.eco/ https://gun.eco/
- 0des 5y ago
  IPFS is perfect for this.
  - dvdkon 5y ago
    Almost, but since it publicly associates the files you share with your IP address, I don't see most interested people willing to use it in this context.
    - 0des 5y ago
      Pinning services exist, VPN's exist, also every other technology including torrents exposes your IP.
      - soylentcola 5y ago
        True, but torrents et al make you a peer, so you're also distributing, not just saving a copy locally. At least that's how I've always understood it in terms of legal risk. But yeah, VPN has (so far) been enough for me to avoid being low hanging fruit when torrenting something I don't have a license to "distribute" while seeding.
        dmos62 5y ago
        To be fair, most Bittorrent users have not had any legal issues (while downloading copyrighted stuff).
haunter 5y ago
I never get how Archive.org can get away with... everything? Like every single console game is there. Nintendo is very famous to take down ROM sites yet their full library is on Archive.org. And that's Nintendo only, all the PS1, PS2, PS3 games and the whole Xbox/360 catalog is there as well. It's crazy In some aspect Archive.org is better than some private torrent trackers
- kingcharles 5y ago
  archive.org regularly removes things when they are alerted :(
  - bt1a 5y ago
    Sounds like we need an archive.org archive
- spicybright 5y ago
  I'm so happy they somehow keep going. I've found so much otherwise dead software there, esp. obscure windows 3.1 games I played growing up :)
- nicoburns 5y ago
  There's plenty of precedent for archives. National libraries get a copy of everything published, and anybody is allowed to borrow and read from it for free. I think there is a recognition that preserving history is important.
- gibspaulding 5y ago
  I've been worrying about this as well. I recently found a Beetles discography on Archive.org even after TPB turned up almost nothing. It's great being able to find things, but It'd be a shame to loose all of the legitimate content because of getting associated with blatant piracy.
  - Y_Y 5y ago
    Meatspace libraries often have a big collection of CDs too. This is part of our cultural heritage, and I think making it accesible in this form is a no-brainer. (By the way, maybe it was a typo, but the spelling is "Beatles". They were better at songwriting than puns.)
kiallmacinnes 5y ago
I'm not 100% sure of all the details, but archive.org has some exceptions[1] to the DMCA & thanks to California, it's officially considered a library - which again, I believe gives it some more leeway on the DMCA. [1]: https://archive.org/about/dmca.php https://archive.org/about/dmca.php
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  In the event a DMCA notice must be actioned, the content is no longer made available ("darked") but it remains archived for the future.

Cthulhu_ 5y ago

It depends on whether Github or Winamp can be arsed; given that it's been posted on HN now, they are probably on the trail now. Archive.org can't just ignore a DMCA takedown, that would threaten their safe haven status.

gmueckl 5y ago
Winamp at this point in time is just a trademark that ended up at a Belgian company. And I think they want to use it to launch a music streaming service. The rest of Nullsoft went down with AOL. I wonder which party would even have the legal rights to move against such a source code leak.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- garaetjjte 5y ago
  They are claiming they have rights to the code too: "I am acting on behalf of AudioValley SA who currently owns the copyright to the Winamp code after a purchase from AOL."
- RF_Savage 5y ago
  I wonder what happened to NSIS, the NullSoft InstallSystem? Used it myself as a teen to have a professional looking installer for my software releases. I still occasionally see software with NSIS installers and Nullsoft copyright. So I wonder what entity is behind it now days.
  - garaetjjte 5y ago
    NSIS is open source, seems to be maintained by the community.
  - thedoctor_o 5y ago
    NSIS has nothing to do with the lot that own Winamp & it was a clearly defined "not part of the sale" as it has been OSS from early on around it's v1.0 iirc which was a long long time before Winamp was eventually sold. I still think they should be using their own forum with an archive of the NSIS sub-forum to ensure that there's a clear distinction between them & the lot that now own Winamp (as there's no benefit for them to be keeping that forum running other than a trickle of ad revenue) but that's down to those that lead NSIS to decide upon. -dro

dmos62 5y ago

We should have infrastructure for sharing things like this without putting a centralized entity like archive.org in the crosshairs. Bittorrent comes to mind, but it could only be part of the solution.

danlugo92 5y ago
https://gun.eco/ https://gun.eco/
0des 5y ago
IPFS is perfect for this.
- dvdkon 5y ago
  Almost, but since it publicly associates the files you share with your IP address, I don't see most interested people willing to use it in this context.
  - 0des 5y ago
    Pinning services exist, VPN's exist, also every other technology including torrents exposes your IP.
    - soylentcola 5y ago
      True, but torrents et al make you a peer, so you're also distributing, not just saving a copy locally. At least that's how I've always understood it in terms of legal risk. But yeah, VPN has (so far) been enough for me to avoid being low hanging fruit when torrenting something I don't have a license to "distribute" while seeding.
      - dmos62 5y ago
        To be fair, most Bittorrent users have not had any legal issues (while downloading copyrighted stuff).

haunter 5y ago

I never get how Archive.org can get away with... everything? Like every single console game is there. Nintendo is very famous to take down ROM sites yet their full library is on Archive.org. And that's Nintendo only, all the PS1, PS2, PS3 games and the whole Xbox/360 catalog is there as well. It's crazy In some aspect Archive.org is better than some private torrent trackers

kingcharles 5y ago
archive.org regularly removes things when they are alerted :(
- bt1a 5y ago
  Sounds like we need an archive.org archive
spicybright 5y ago
I'm so happy they somehow keep going. I've found so much otherwise dead software there, esp. obscure windows 3.1 games I played growing up :)
nicoburns 5y ago
There's plenty of precedent for archives. National libraries get a copy of everything published, and anybody is allowed to borrow and read from it for free. I think there is a recognition that preserving history is important.
gibspaulding 5y ago
I've been worrying about this as well. I recently found a Beetles discography on Archive.org even after TPB turned up almost nothing. It's great being able to find things, but It'd be a shame to loose all of the legitimate content because of getting associated with blatant piracy.
- Y_Y 5y ago
  Meatspace libraries often have a big collection of CDs too. This is part of our cultural heritage, and I think making it accesible in this form is a no-brainer. (By the way, maybe it was a typo, but the spelling is "Beatles". They were better at songwriting than puns.)

kiallmacinnes 5y ago

I'm not 100% sure of all the details, but archive.org has some exceptions[1] to the DMCA & thanks to California, it's officially considered a library - which again, I believe gives it some more leeway on the DMCA. [1]: https://archive.org/about/dmca.php https://archive.org/about/dmca.php

toomuchtodo 5y ago
In the event a DMCA notice must be actioned, the content is no longer made available ("darked") but it remains archived for the future.