6 ms·

Flashing the high-beams to warn of police is a thing in the US also, although you can get ticketed for it. (Apparently this has been successfully challenged in

Flashing the high-beams to warn of police is a thing in the US also, although you can get ticketed for it. (Apparently this has been successfully challenged in court as free speech though lol https://www.myimprov.com/flashing-headlights-in-florida-protected-speech/ https://www.myimprov.com/flashing-headlights-in-florida-prot... )

sjg007 5y ago
Most people these days drive with their LED high beams on all the time.
- genewitch 5y ago
  I don't understand how a car with detectors that dim mirrors can't also turn your high beams off when they detect another car in front of you. Easily 5/8ths or more of every vehicle I pass at night has their high beams on, and in areas without fog lines it gets old in a hurry - and dangerous.
  - sgtnoodle 5y ago
    Our 2020 GMC Acadia and the equivalent Ford Explorer both automatically turn high beams on and off depending on nearby traffic. It's presumably based on a forward looking camera in front of the rear view mirror.
  - wwalexander 5y ago
    This feature is present in at least a couple of Toyota’s newer models that I’ve had the chance to drive (specifically a Prius Prime and RAV4 Prime).
    - nereye 5y ago
      Ford Edge (US market) has this too when in 'automatic' mode for the lights. It seems to work reasonably well though it sometimes lags a bit so other drivers probably find it somewhat annoying.
  - progman32 5y ago
    Where do y'all live? That doesn't seem to be the case here in the Seattle area. I've noticed modern cars' headlight look like high beams sometimes, even on the low beam setting.
  - hadlock 5y ago
    This technology exists in Europe, it's not allowed in the US due to very specific wording about headlight laws here, but very recently regulations were changed to allow for it. Not sure if it was in the infrastructure bill that already passed, or the follow-up one they're currently trying to pass. Most BMW (and probably Mercedes, Audi etc) with adaptive LED lights built after ~2017 have the hardware for this for use in international markets, and could probably be retrofitted with a firmware update unlocking it for use in the US market.
    - kube-system 5y ago
      Auto high-beams is absolutely allowed in the US and common on new cars. I've had a couple cars with this feature.
      - hadlock 5y ago
        My current car has auto high beams. Beam shaping is different technology, rather than a boolean operation, it allows the computer to turn off specific LEDs that are pointed at oncoming traffic, leaving the road ahead of you fully illuminated without blinding oncomming traffic
        kube-system 5y ago
        The GP specifically referred to a vehicle that would "turn your high beams off"
    - clort 5y ago
      This technology is not great on a windy[1] european road though. I rented a car recently and noticed that it was auto-dipping but the problem is it dips once it has detected the oncoming vehicle. That is fractionally too late as the driver has already been dazzled. Manually, I would dip the headlights just before the car came into view because I could see the headlights looming. [1] a road with lots of turns, not one where the wind is blowing
      - 5y ago
  - hermitdev 5y ago
    > I don't understand how a car with detectors that dim mirrors can't also turn your high beams off when they detect another car in front of you. Some can, though I have no idea on how common it is. My 2013 Dodge can do this. Unfortunately, it's also pretty terrible at it, resulting in a lot of on, off, on again, not quite flashing. e.g., a slight bend in the road, it doesn't seen anyone if front, turns high beams on, only for the road to bend back and all of a sudden your brights are shining in someone's face as the road bends back again. Sometimes, I've seen even changing lanes be enough for it to turn brights back on again. It also doesn't seem to give as much consideration when following someone as leaves them on way too close for me. I live in an urban enough area with plenty of street lighting anyway, so I tend to use the auto high beam feature almost never (it can be toggled with a position of the turn signal lever). I do, however, use the auto-on lights in general, though. Nice to just not have to worry about turning lights on (or off). I've also been pulled over before for flashing my brights at a police officer. It was entirely unintentional, though. I was a relatively new and young driver (17 or 18 yrs old at the time) and I was driving an older vehicle that still had a foot operated switch for the high beams that tended to stick.
  - t0mas88 5y ago
    BMW does "automatic high beams" in Europe, they turn on when there are no cars ahead or opposite and off when it detects a car through the cameras. I've had it since 2006, so it probably existed a few years before that.
- ddingus 5y ago
  A switch to low and back will still be seen as a flash. Edit: I do actually see this on the road all the time where I live. Just saying.
- cryptonector 5y ago
  I hate this. It's incredibly dangerous and annoying.
- oxfeed65261 5y ago
  I see the opposite problem more often (Bay Area): cars with always-on daytime running lights that don’t turn on their headlights (and the corresponding taillights) at night. I flash my lights at them but this rarely seems to help.
  - wcunning 5y ago
    This is a huge problem here in Michigan, too. Many cars come with automatic headlights, but many do not, particularly of a certain age, and the LED DRLs seem to be bright enough that people do not realize that they don't have their full lights on. I find this particularly infuriating in ugly snowstorms and the part of the year where the sun sets before 5:00pm... sigh
    - kube-system 5y ago
      My theory is that these cars have multiple drivers. Driver A is used to vehicles with manual headlights and always turns their lights off when they get out. Driver B is used to "everything is automatic" and touches nothing when they get in.
      - wcunning 5y ago
        This is very possible -- I had this exact situation with my girlfriend until I managed to get her used to leaving it in automatic mode.
  - kube-system 5y ago
    Cars have too many features. And I don't mean this in a, "I'm a luddite and wish cars were simple" type of way. I seriously think the number of controls on a vehicle (and burden of the owners manual) is so great that it is causing safety issues. My car has more controls for the lights alone than my first vehicle had for everything. Literally. "Automatic" features like headlights were supposed to make us safer, but I think that is backfiring as it is causing cognitive overload and making people complacent.
    - deleted 5y ago
- foolfoolz 5y ago
  in zanzibar they all have their brights on at night. everyone is blinded
icambron 5y ago
I remember reading through some of the judicial rulings on this. IIRC, the logic is that not only is it speech, but the government case for regulating this kind of speech is unusually poor: the function of flashing the lights is to suggest that you obey the traffic laws. That can't reasonably be in the government's interest to prevent.
- matt-attack 5y ago
  Now that is an interesting point I never considered. That the message being conveyed is simply "Obey the law". Not that the contents of the message should be germane (in my opinion) when considering whether a specific act of speech should be considered legal or not.
  - icambron 5y ago
    IANAL, but my understanding is that there are different levels of "scrutiny" that can be applied to a statute when analyzing its First Amendment compatibility, and which one is appropriate depends on several factors. Typically a judicial opinion walks through the logic of which one it applies before applying it. And the level of scrutiny determines how strongly the law is constrained. Under the strictest scrutiny--applied when the law is restricting the expression of a viewpoint or opinion--it doesn't matter why the law is there; free speech wins. Under lower scrutiny, as seems applicable here, the government must show it has a "rational basis". That's what allows them to, say, require you to communicate your intention to turn via a turn signal. I believe that rational basis test is what's failing here.
    - ghayes 5y ago
      This comes from Footnote Number 4 [0], which was literally a footnote in a case where a Justice articulated what the Court was already doing in analyzing its cases. The Court generally applies one of three levels of scrutiny [1]: * Strict scrutiny - The Government must prove there is a compelling state interest behind the challenged policy, and the law or regulation is narrowly tailored to achieve its result. * Intermediate scrutiny - The law must serve an important government objective, and be substantially related to achieving the objective. * Rational basis review - A challenger must prove the government has no legitimate interest in the law or policy; or there is no reasonable, rational link between that interest and the challenged law. While I don't believe the Supreme Court has taken up a case of light signaling, it is likely that the Court would apply strict scrutiny due to the clear First Amendment considerations. If so, thus the government would need to prove that it's narrowly tailored solution to a compelling state interest. It would need to answer questions such as: is it okay to say flash your headlights for road hazard? Would the state prohibit the defendant from telling others at a gas station about the police officer? Etc. I'd suspect that it would be a hard case to win for the Government. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Carolene_Products_Co https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Carolene_Prod.... [1] https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/law-and-life/challenging-laws-3-levels-of-scrutiny-explained/ https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/law-and-life/challenging-...
whymauri 5y ago
This is why rural Arizonan drivers were my favorite during a cross-country roadtrip. Everyone drove fast, but competently, and gave you a heads up for speed traps. By the time I crossed into CO I was flashing my lights to warn of police, too.
- cptskippy 5y ago
  I've seen flashing lights to warn of speed traps used all over the south east and mid west. Oddly though, no one in Southern California holds Arizona drivers in high regard. Quite the opposite. Best I can tell they're the western equivalent of Florida drivers.
barbs 5y ago
A few years ago in Sydney Australia there was a couple of cops catching jaywalkers at a traffic light. My friend warned passengers at the other side about them, and then the cops came up to her and told her to move along because she was "obstructing justice".

sjg007 5y ago

Most people these days drive with their LED high beams on all the time.

genewitch 5y ago
I don't understand how a car with detectors that dim mirrors can't also turn your high beams off when they detect another car in front of you. Easily 5/8ths or more of every vehicle I pass at night has their high beams on, and in areas without fog lines it gets old in a hurry - and dangerous.
- sgtnoodle 5y ago
  Our 2020 GMC Acadia and the equivalent Ford Explorer both automatically turn high beams on and off depending on nearby traffic. It's presumably based on a forward looking camera in front of the rear view mirror.
- wwalexander 5y ago
  This feature is present in at least a couple of Toyota’s newer models that I’ve had the chance to drive (specifically a Prius Prime and RAV4 Prime).
  - nereye 5y ago
    Ford Edge (US market) has this too when in 'automatic' mode for the lights. It seems to work reasonably well though it sometimes lags a bit so other drivers probably find it somewhat annoying.
- progman32 5y ago
  Where do y'all live? That doesn't seem to be the case here in the Seattle area. I've noticed modern cars' headlight look like high beams sometimes, even on the low beam setting.
- hadlock 5y ago
  This technology exists in Europe, it's not allowed in the US due to very specific wording about headlight laws here, but very recently regulations were changed to allow for it. Not sure if it was in the infrastructure bill that already passed, or the follow-up one they're currently trying to pass. Most BMW (and probably Mercedes, Audi etc) with adaptive LED lights built after ~2017 have the hardware for this for use in international markets, and could probably be retrofitted with a firmware update unlocking it for use in the US market.
  - kube-system 5y ago
    Auto high-beams is absolutely allowed in the US and common on new cars. I've had a couple cars with this feature.
    - hadlock 5y ago
      My current car has auto high beams. Beam shaping is different technology, rather than a boolean operation, it allows the computer to turn off specific LEDs that are pointed at oncoming traffic, leaving the road ahead of you fully illuminated without blinding oncomming traffic
      - kube-system 5y ago
        The GP specifically referred to a vehicle that would "turn your high beams off"
  - clort 5y ago
    This technology is not great on a windy[1] european road though. I rented a car recently and noticed that it was auto-dipping but the problem is it dips once it has detected the oncoming vehicle. That is fractionally too late as the driver has already been dazzled. Manually, I would dip the headlights just before the car came into view because I could see the headlights looming. [1] a road with lots of turns, not one where the wind is blowing
    - 5y ago
- hermitdev 5y ago
  > I don't understand how a car with detectors that dim mirrors can't also turn your high beams off when they detect another car in front of you. Some can, though I have no idea on how common it is. My 2013 Dodge can do this. Unfortunately, it's also pretty terrible at it, resulting in a lot of on, off, on again, not quite flashing. e.g., a slight bend in the road, it doesn't seen anyone if front, turns high beams on, only for the road to bend back and all of a sudden your brights are shining in someone's face as the road bends back again. Sometimes, I've seen even changing lanes be enough for it to turn brights back on again. It also doesn't seem to give as much consideration when following someone as leaves them on way too close for me. I live in an urban enough area with plenty of street lighting anyway, so I tend to use the auto high beam feature almost never (it can be toggled with a position of the turn signal lever). I do, however, use the auto-on lights in general, though. Nice to just not have to worry about turning lights on (or off). I've also been pulled over before for flashing my brights at a police officer. It was entirely unintentional, though. I was a relatively new and young driver (17 or 18 yrs old at the time) and I was driving an older vehicle that still had a foot operated switch for the high beams that tended to stick.
- t0mas88 5y ago
  BMW does "automatic high beams" in Europe, they turn on when there are no cars ahead or opposite and off when it detects a car through the cameras. I've had it since 2006, so it probably existed a few years before that.
ddingus 5y ago
A switch to low and back will still be seen as a flash. Edit: I do actually see this on the road all the time where I live. Just saying.
cryptonector 5y ago
I hate this. It's incredibly dangerous and annoying.
oxfeed65261 5y ago
I see the opposite problem more often (Bay Area): cars with always-on daytime running lights that don’t turn on their headlights (and the corresponding taillights) at night. I flash my lights at them but this rarely seems to help.
- wcunning 5y ago
  This is a huge problem here in Michigan, too. Many cars come with automatic headlights, but many do not, particularly of a certain age, and the LED DRLs seem to be bright enough that people do not realize that they don't have their full lights on. I find this particularly infuriating in ugly snowstorms and the part of the year where the sun sets before 5:00pm... sigh
  - kube-system 5y ago
    My theory is that these cars have multiple drivers. Driver A is used to vehicles with manual headlights and always turns their lights off when they get out. Driver B is used to "everything is automatic" and touches nothing when they get in.
    - wcunning 5y ago
      This is very possible -- I had this exact situation with my girlfriend until I managed to get her used to leaving it in automatic mode.
- kube-system 5y ago
  Cars have too many features. And I don't mean this in a, "I'm a luddite and wish cars were simple" type of way. I seriously think the number of controls on a vehicle (and burden of the owners manual) is so great that it is causing safety issues. My car has more controls for the lights alone than my first vehicle had for everything. Literally. "Automatic" features like headlights were supposed to make us safer, but I think that is backfiring as it is causing cognitive overload and making people complacent.
  - deleted 5y ago
foolfoolz 5y ago
in zanzibar they all have their brights on at night. everyone is blinded

icambron 5y ago

I remember reading through some of the judicial rulings on this. IIRC, the logic is that not only is it speech, but the government case for regulating this kind of speech is unusually poor: the function of flashing the lights is to suggest that you obey the traffic laws. That can't reasonably be in the government's interest to prevent.

matt-attack 5y ago
Now that is an interesting point I never considered. That the message being conveyed is simply "Obey the law". Not that the contents of the message should be germane (in my opinion) when considering whether a specific act of speech should be considered legal or not.
- icambron 5y ago
  IANAL, but my understanding is that there are different levels of "scrutiny" that can be applied to a statute when analyzing its First Amendment compatibility, and which one is appropriate depends on several factors. Typically a judicial opinion walks through the logic of which one it applies before applying it. And the level of scrutiny determines how strongly the law is constrained. Under the strictest scrutiny--applied when the law is restricting the expression of a viewpoint or opinion--it doesn't matter why the law is there; free speech wins. Under lower scrutiny, as seems applicable here, the government must show it has a "rational basis". That's what allows them to, say, require you to communicate your intention to turn via a turn signal. I believe that rational basis test is what's failing here.
  - ghayes 5y ago
    This comes from Footnote Number 4 [0], which was literally a footnote in a case where a Justice articulated what the Court was already doing in analyzing its cases. The Court generally applies one of three levels of scrutiny [1]: * Strict scrutiny - The Government must prove there is a compelling state interest behind the challenged policy, and the law or regulation is narrowly tailored to achieve its result. * Intermediate scrutiny - The law must serve an important government objective, and be substantially related to achieving the objective. * Rational basis review - A challenger must prove the government has no legitimate interest in the law or policy; or there is no reasonable, rational link between that interest and the challenged law. While I don't believe the Supreme Court has taken up a case of light signaling, it is likely that the Court would apply strict scrutiny due to the clear First Amendment considerations. If so, thus the government would need to prove that it's narrowly tailored solution to a compelling state interest. It would need to answer questions such as: is it okay to say flash your headlights for road hazard? Would the state prohibit the defendant from telling others at a gas station about the police officer? Etc. I'd suspect that it would be a hard case to win for the Government. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Carolene_Products_Co https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Carolene_Prod.... [1] https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/law-and-life/challenging-laws-3-levels-of-scrutiny-explained/ https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/law-and-life/challenging-...

whymauri 5y ago

This is why rural Arizonan drivers were my favorite during a cross-country roadtrip. Everyone drove fast, but competently, and gave you a heads up for speed traps. By the time I crossed into CO I was flashing my lights to warn of police, too.

cptskippy 5y ago
I've seen flashing lights to warn of speed traps used all over the south east and mid west. Oddly though, no one in Southern California holds Arizona drivers in high regard. Quite the opposite. Best I can tell they're the western equivalent of Florida drivers.

barbs 5y ago

A few years ago in Sydney Australia there was a couple of cops catching jaywalkers at a traffic light. My friend warned passengers at the other side about them, and then the cops came up to her and told her to move along because she was "obstructing justice".