5 ms·

The real problem of Firefox is one that nobody cares about: distribution. Let's say Firefox is the most advanced browser of the universe. How can you get peopl

The real problem of Firefox is one that nobody cares about: distribution. Let's say Firefox is the most advanced browser of the universe. How can you get people to install Firefox? Chrome has the advantage here because it is preinstalled in every Android phone and Android has more than 90% market share. The second advantage Chrome has is that it cannot be uninstalled from Android. The fact that Android phones have a limited storage space is a compelling reason to not install a second browser. The third advantage Chrome has is the fact that more than 90% of people use Google has search engine and every time you access google.com with a browser other than Chrome you get a "Switch to Chrome" notification telling you that Chrome will help you "hide" annoying ads (without telling you that Google is responsible for the annoying ads) and you will be safe against malware. The regular user fears malwares and viruses more than ads or anything else because they think their bank account info will be stolen, so better security is a compelling reason to install Chrome. Please, tell me, how do Firefox or any other browser can compete with the fact that Google is abusing their dominance of the search engine market and the mobile phone market to "force" people to use Chrome?

mepian 5y ago
Nobody cares about? Mozilla tried to solve this exact problem with Boot2Gecko/FirefoxOS phones and failed.
- akagusu 5y ago
  Users don't care.
- katsura 5y ago
  Did it really fail? The fork, KaiOS, seems to do pretty well: https://www.kaiostech.com/company/our-story/ https://www.kaiostech.com/company/our-story/ They claim that they are on 160 million devices. And based on this: https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity Firefox has about 220 million users at the moment. So, I wouldn't say that FirefoxOS failed, it just failed in their hand.
  - _-david-_ 5y ago
    >They claim that they are on 160 million devices. How many of those are active devices?
DeathArrow 5y ago
To me some of the things you mention sound like anticompetitive practices from behalf of Google.
- akagusu 5y ago
  Microsoft used these same anti competitive practices with Windows and Internet Explorer and they got an antitrust lawsuit.
  - stinos 5y ago
    Always wondered how Google can pull it off then. I assume their legal team figured out the threshold of what they can do, and now they do threshold - 1 so "it's ok"?
    - akagusu 5y ago
      Probably yes, but I think the market does not care about anti competitive practices anymore because everyone is trying to do the same thing, the difference between Google and them is the scale.
- mysterydip 5y ago
  A browser installed by default that can't be removed... where have I heard that one before? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_C....
  - Spivak 5y ago
    People always cite this case but the software landscape has massively changed since the ruling and there's no way the courts would go this way again. Every single device you buy has a bundled web browser that is for all practical purposes unremovable.
- judge2020 5y ago
  Well, the engine has to be there for all the apps that use a WebView and are expecting Chromium to embed that webview (in terms of utilizing any css/js quirks so that the experience is guaranteed consistent across vendors), so "deleting" chrome wouldn't do anything more than how deleting Safari on iOS just hides the app icon away [in App Library].
kwertyoowiyop 5y ago
Google: ‘We don’t force people to use Chrome! We just ask them again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again…’
- Spivak 5y ago
  I mean that's why people used to call certain software nagware.
- dharmaturtle 5y ago
  Are you talking about Chrome or Edge? Both are better than Safari on iOS though, which does force you to use it.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
    > Are you talking about Chrome or Edge? Yes.
GuB-42 5y ago
Firefox had more than 30% market share at their peak, against pre-installed IE and Microsoft aggressive tactics. It was before the ballot screen. Together with Chrome, they ended up beating IE, at the time neither had a significant advantage in distribution, at least compared to IE. So in theory, Chrome can be beaten, except that unlike IE, Chrome doesn't suck, in fact, about the only thing going for Firefox is that it is not Chrome.
- veidelis 5y ago
  Addons on mobiles are another thing going for Firefox. What youtube ads?
  - asdff 5y ago
    Only for android though
Andrex 5y ago
I don't disagree with this comment, but it's worth noting Chrome was already rising to dominance as a desktop browser before Android/mobile internet usage became a significant factor. Somehow even with Microsoft promoting IE on their platform, people still chose to install an alternative.
tim333 5y ago
Internet Explorer used to have that edvantage - included in Windows but most people used it to download Chrome because Chrome was better in various ways. I think the problem with Firefox is it's not noticeably better. Not sure how you fix that though.

mepian 5y ago

Nobody cares about? Mozilla tried to solve this exact problem with Boot2Gecko/FirefoxOS phones and failed.

akagusu 5y ago
Users don't care.
katsura 5y ago
Did it really fail? The fork, KaiOS, seems to do pretty well: https://www.kaiostech.com/company/our-story/ https://www.kaiostech.com/company/our-story/ They claim that they are on 160 million devices. And based on this: https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity Firefox has about 220 million users at the moment. So, I wouldn't say that FirefoxOS failed, it just failed in their hand.
- _-david-_ 5y ago
  >They claim that they are on 160 million devices. How many of those are active devices?

DeathArrow 5y ago

To me some of the things you mention sound like anticompetitive practices from behalf of Google.

akagusu 5y ago
Microsoft used these same anti competitive practices with Windows and Internet Explorer and they got an antitrust lawsuit.
- stinos 5y ago
  Always wondered how Google can pull it off then. I assume their legal team figured out the threshold of what they can do, and now they do threshold - 1 so "it's ok"?
  - akagusu 5y ago
    Probably yes, but I think the market does not care about anti competitive practices anymore because everyone is trying to do the same thing, the difference between Google and them is the scale.
mysterydip 5y ago
A browser installed by default that can't be removed... where have I heard that one before? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_C....
- Spivak 5y ago
  People always cite this case but the software landscape has massively changed since the ruling and there's no way the courts would go this way again. Every single device you buy has a bundled web browser that is for all practical purposes unremovable.
judge2020 5y ago
Well, the engine has to be there for all the apps that use a WebView and are expecting Chromium to embed that webview (in terms of utilizing any css/js quirks so that the experience is guaranteed consistent across vendors), so "deleting" chrome wouldn't do anything more than how deleting Safari on iOS just hides the app icon away [in App Library].

kwertyoowiyop 5y ago

Google: ‘We don’t force people to use Chrome! We just ask them again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again…’

Spivak 5y ago
I mean that's why people used to call certain software nagware.
dharmaturtle 5y ago
Are you talking about Chrome or Edge? Both are better than Safari on iOS though, which does force you to use it.
- yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
  > Are you talking about Chrome or Edge? Yes.

GuB-42 5y ago

Firefox had more than 30% market share at their peak, against pre-installed IE and Microsoft aggressive tactics. It was before the ballot screen. Together with Chrome, they ended up beating IE, at the time neither had a significant advantage in distribution, at least compared to IE. So in theory, Chrome can be beaten, except that unlike IE, Chrome doesn't suck, in fact, about the only thing going for Firefox is that it is not Chrome.

veidelis 5y ago
Addons on mobiles are another thing going for Firefox. What youtube ads?
- asdff 5y ago
  Only for android though

Andrex 5y ago

I don't disagree with this comment, but it's worth noting Chrome was already rising to dominance as a desktop browser before Android/mobile internet usage became a significant factor. Somehow even with Microsoft promoting IE on their platform, people still chose to install an alternative.

tim333 5y ago

Internet Explorer used to have that edvantage - included in Windows but most people used it to download Chrome because Chrome was better in various ways. I think the problem with Firefox is it's not noticeably better. Not sure how you fix that though.