4 ms·

I get what you are saying, but you are aware VSCode is an entire web browser with a small coding engine. Jetbrains IDEs while built with Java are at least nativ

I get what you are saying, but you are aware VSCode is an entire web browser with a small coding engine. Jetbrains IDEs while built with Java are at least native code. Jetbrain IDEs are also full IDEs, not notepads with a few extras. It's rather hard to compare the two, a proper comparison would be something like Visual Studio.

cxr 5y ago
> you are aware VSCode is an entire web browser [...] Jetbrains IDEs [...] are at least native code So? You wouldn't tell a non-programmer something like this about an app that they use and expect it to make a difference. The results—the effect that the program produces—is the only thing that matters. If JetBrains manages to produce an IDE where you're constantly confronted with bloat while you're using it, and using something else would alleviate some of that pain, whether the alternative is "native code" or not, then that's the only thing that matters—not architectural purity. (Side note: is the fundamental theorem behind your statement even true? If I download and run IntelliJ right now is it bytecode running on the JVM, or is it Java/Kotlin AOT-compiled to native object files? Poking around 'ideaIC-2021.2.3.tar.gz', there are an awful lot of classfile-containing JARs in `lib/`, and `bin/idea.sh` ends like this: # --------------------------------------------------------------------- # Run the IDE. # --------------------------------------------------------------------- IFS="$(printf '\n\t')" # shellcheck disable=SC2086 "$JAVA_BIN" \ -classpath "$CLASSPATH" \ ${VM_OPTIONS} \ "-XX:ErrorFile=$HOME/java_error_in_idea_%p.log" \ "-XX:HeapDumpPath=$HOME/java_error_in_idea_.hprof" \ "-Djb.vmOptionsFile=${USER_VM_OPTIONS_FILE:-${VM_OPTIONS_FILE}}" \ ${IDE_PROPERTIES_PROPERTY} \ -Djava.system.class.loader=com.intellij.util.lang.PathClassLoader -Didea.vendor.name=JetBrains -Didea.paths.selector=IdeaIC2021.2 -Didea.platform.prefix=Idea -Didea.jre.check=true -Dsplash=true \ com.intellij.idea.Main \ "$@" Non-side note: no matter what the answer is, don't get sidetracked into thinking that it makes a difference to what actually matters.)
- dubcanada 5y ago
  You clearly missed my memo, the above message was saying they avoid JetBrains because of bloat, while using literally an entire browser to "avoid bloat". That was all I was saying.
  - cxr 5y ago
    In fact, you said more than that, hence my quote—which is a real quote, unlike the made up one in your comment—the words you're attributing to the person you reference don't appear anywhere in their comment. (Also, separately, that's not really an appropriate use of the idiom to miss the memo.) I will admit that I don't know what your point is. Are you under the impression that the Java platform is lightweight? In addition to your spurious claims about native code: - code_1.62.3-167137107_amd64.deb: 77.4 MB - ideaIC-2021.2.3.tar.gz: 795 MB That's a >10x factor.

cxr 5y ago

> you are aware VSCode is an entire web browser [...] Jetbrains IDEs [...] are at least native code So? You wouldn't tell a non-programmer something like this about an app that they use and expect it to make a difference. The results—the effect that the program produces—is the only thing that matters. If JetBrains manages to produce an IDE where you're constantly confronted with bloat while you're using it, and using something else would alleviate some of that pain, whether the alternative is "native code" or not, then that's the only thing that matters—not architectural purity. (Side note: is the fundamental theorem behind your statement even true? If I download and run IntelliJ right now is it bytecode running on the JVM, or is it Java/Kotlin AOT-compiled to native object files? Poking around 'ideaIC-2021.2.3.tar.gz', there are an awful lot of classfile-containing JARs in `lib/`, and `bin/idea.sh` ends like this: # --------------------------------------------------------------------- # Run the IDE. # --------------------------------------------------------------------- IFS="$(printf '\n\t')" # shellcheck disable=SC2086 "$JAVA_BIN" \ -classpath "$CLASSPATH" \ ${VM_OPTIONS} \ "-XX:ErrorFile=$HOME/java_error_in_idea_%p.log" \ "-XX:HeapDumpPath=$HOME/java_error_in_idea_.hprof" \ "-Djb.vmOptionsFile=${USER_VM_OPTIONS_FILE:-${VM_OPTIONS_FILE}}" \ ${IDE_PROPERTIES_PROPERTY} \ -Djava.system.class.loader=com.intellij.util.lang.PathClassLoader -Didea.vendor.name=JetBrains -Didea.paths.selector=IdeaIC2021.2 -Didea.platform.prefix=Idea -Didea.jre.check=true -Dsplash=true \ com.intellij.idea.Main \ "$@" Non-side note: no matter what the answer is, don't get sidetracked into thinking that it makes a difference to what actually matters.)

dubcanada 5y ago
You clearly missed my memo, the above message was saying they avoid JetBrains because of bloat, while using literally an entire browser to "avoid bloat". That was all I was saying.
- cxr 5y ago
  In fact, you said more than that, hence my quote—which is a real quote, unlike the made up one in your comment—the words you're attributing to the person you reference don't appear anywhere in their comment. (Also, separately, that's not really an appropriate use of the idiom to miss the memo.) I will admit that I don't know what your point is. Are you under the impression that the Java platform is lightweight? In addition to your spurious claims about native code: - code_1.62.3-167137107_amd64.deb: 77.4 MB - ideaIC-2021.2.3.tar.gz: 795 MB That's a >10x factor.