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Looking through the features, and the similarity of the architecture, looks like this is meant to compete with VS Code. Even the Settings implementation has the

Looking through the features, and the similarity of the architecture, looks like this is meant to compete with VS Code. Even the Settings implementation has the same global/user/workspace hierarchy; there's the 'trusted' code concept too. The one thing that might make it stand out is the smart mode: lightweight editor by default, and enabling it brings in the heavier IDE features. Anecdotally I've stopped using Jetbrains IDEs due to the bloat factor and their relatively poor Linux support, where VSCode has been providing excellent support and still manages to stay lightweight (though, it's starting to get notification heavy, isn't it?). Fleet is aimed at people like us so I'm willing to give it a try, but expectations are low.

selfhoster11 5y ago
What do you see as poor Linux support?
- vially 5y ago
  Not op, but for me the lack of native Wayland support is a deal breaker. And running it through XWayland has various issues (focus is broken, issues with HighDPI screens, etc). If Fleet supports Wayland natively I might give it a try, otherwise it's dead on arrival for me.
  - kaba0 5y ago
    As far as I know jetbrains did start to write a wayland backend for sway. But it is most probably a project with very low priority.
- politelemon 5y ago
  My mistake on the wording, I should have said "mediocre", perhaps. I can't edit the comment now, oops sorry. I am referring to lack of an installer, and also the default shortcuts which clash with the distro, and in general I've seen features come to Linux a lot later. So a better way to put it is that Linux feels like an afterthought to Jetbrains. I do follow and also raise issues you on YouTrack but find they often languish. Their IDEs are still overall pretty good, but I gravitate towards VS Code now.
  - ta988 5y ago
    The installer is called jetbrains Toolbox. Never had any issues on systems with i3, gnome, sway...
    - cluoma 5y ago
      Installing single IDEs is clunky. Basically it's up to you to put it where you want and then create any shortcuts you may need. Flatpaks make this easier but I would rather not use them. Besides this, I never really felt that Linux was an afterthought though. At least from my experience using CLion.
      - ta988 5y ago
        No Jetbrains toolbox handles all of that for you by default. And let you override defaults if needed.
Osiris 5y ago
I've been using WebStorm exclusively on Linux with i3 for more over 3 years. I haven't run into any issues with it at all. Even the JetBrains Toolbox and automatic updates works fine.
dubcanada 5y ago
I get what you are saying, but you are aware VSCode is an entire web browser with a small coding engine. Jetbrains IDEs while built with Java are at least native code. Jetbrain IDEs are also full IDEs, not notepads with a few extras. It's rather hard to compare the two, a proper comparison would be something like Visual Studio.
- cxr 5y ago
  > you are aware VSCode is an entire web browser [...] Jetbrains IDEs [...] are at least native code So? You wouldn't tell a non-programmer something like this about an app that they use and expect it to make a difference. The results—the effect that the program produces—is the only thing that matters. If JetBrains manages to produce an IDE where you're constantly confronted with bloat while you're using it, and using something else would alleviate some of that pain, whether the alternative is "native code" or not, then that's the only thing that matters—not architectural purity. (Side note: is the fundamental theorem behind your statement even true? If I download and run IntelliJ right now is it bytecode running on the JVM, or is it Java/Kotlin AOT-compiled to native object files? Poking around 'ideaIC-2021.2.3.tar.gz', there are an awful lot of classfile-containing JARs in `lib/`, and `bin/idea.sh` ends like this: # --------------------------------------------------------------------- # Run the IDE. # --------------------------------------------------------------------- IFS="$(printf '\n\t')" # shellcheck disable=SC2086 "$JAVA_BIN" \ -classpath "$CLASSPATH" \ ${VM_OPTIONS} \ "-XX:ErrorFile=$HOME/java_error_in_idea_%p.log" \ "-XX:HeapDumpPath=$HOME/java_error_in_idea_.hprof" \ "-Djb.vmOptionsFile=${USER_VM_OPTIONS_FILE:-${VM_OPTIONS_FILE}}" \ ${IDE_PROPERTIES_PROPERTY} \ -Djava.system.class.loader=com.intellij.util.lang.PathClassLoader -Didea.vendor.name=JetBrains -Didea.paths.selector=IdeaIC2021.2 -Didea.platform.prefix=Idea -Didea.jre.check=true -Dsplash=true \ com.intellij.idea.Main \ "$@" Non-side note: no matter what the answer is, don't get sidetracked into thinking that it makes a difference to what actually matters.)
  - dubcanada 5y ago
    You clearly missed my memo, the above message was saying they avoid JetBrains because of bloat, while using literally an entire browser to "avoid bloat". That was all I was saying.

selfhoster11 5y ago

What do you see as poor Linux support?

vially 5y ago
Not op, but for me the lack of native Wayland support is a deal breaker. And running it through XWayland has various issues (focus is broken, issues with HighDPI screens, etc). If Fleet supports Wayland natively I might give it a try, otherwise it's dead on arrival for me.
- kaba0 5y ago
  As far as I know jetbrains did start to write a wayland backend for sway. But it is most probably a project with very low priority.
politelemon 5y ago
My mistake on the wording, I should have said "mediocre", perhaps. I can't edit the comment now, oops sorry. I am referring to lack of an installer, and also the default shortcuts which clash with the distro, and in general I've seen features come to Linux a lot later. So a better way to put it is that Linux feels like an afterthought to Jetbrains. I do follow and also raise issues you on YouTrack but find they often languish. Their IDEs are still overall pretty good, but I gravitate towards VS Code now.
- ta988 5y ago
  The installer is called jetbrains Toolbox. Never had any issues on systems with i3, gnome, sway...
  - cluoma 5y ago
    Installing single IDEs is clunky. Basically it's up to you to put it where you want and then create any shortcuts you may need. Flatpaks make this easier but I would rather not use them. Besides this, I never really felt that Linux was an afterthought though. At least from my experience using CLion.
    - ta988 5y ago
      No Jetbrains toolbox handles all of that for you by default. And let you override defaults if needed.

Osiris 5y ago

I've been using WebStorm exclusively on Linux with i3 for more over 3 years. I haven't run into any issues with it at all. Even the JetBrains Toolbox and automatic updates works fine.

dubcanada 5y ago

I get what you are saying, but you are aware VSCode is an entire web browser with a small coding engine. Jetbrains IDEs while built with Java are at least native code. Jetbrain IDEs are also full IDEs, not notepads with a few extras. It's rather hard to compare the two, a proper comparison would be something like Visual Studio.

cxr 5y ago
> you are aware VSCode is an entire web browser [...] Jetbrains IDEs [...] are at least native code So? You wouldn't tell a non-programmer something like this about an app that they use and expect it to make a difference. The results—the effect that the program produces—is the only thing that matters. If JetBrains manages to produce an IDE where you're constantly confronted with bloat while you're using it, and using something else would alleviate some of that pain, whether the alternative is "native code" or not, then that's the only thing that matters—not architectural purity. (Side note: is the fundamental theorem behind your statement even true? If I download and run IntelliJ right now is it bytecode running on the JVM, or is it Java/Kotlin AOT-compiled to native object files? Poking around 'ideaIC-2021.2.3.tar.gz', there are an awful lot of classfile-containing JARs in `lib/`, and `bin/idea.sh` ends like this: # --------------------------------------------------------------------- # Run the IDE. # --------------------------------------------------------------------- IFS="$(printf '\n\t')" # shellcheck disable=SC2086 "$JAVA_BIN" \ -classpath "$CLASSPATH" \ ${VM_OPTIONS} \ "-XX:ErrorFile=$HOME/java_error_in_idea_%p.log" \ "-XX:HeapDumpPath=$HOME/java_error_in_idea_.hprof" \ "-Djb.vmOptionsFile=${USER_VM_OPTIONS_FILE:-${VM_OPTIONS_FILE}}" \ ${IDE_PROPERTIES_PROPERTY} \ -Djava.system.class.loader=com.intellij.util.lang.PathClassLoader -Didea.vendor.name=JetBrains -Didea.paths.selector=IdeaIC2021.2 -Didea.platform.prefix=Idea -Didea.jre.check=true -Dsplash=true \ com.intellij.idea.Main \ "$@" Non-side note: no matter what the answer is, don't get sidetracked into thinking that it makes a difference to what actually matters.)
- dubcanada 5y ago
  You clearly missed my memo, the above message was saying they avoid JetBrains because of bloat, while using literally an entire browser to "avoid bloat". That was all I was saying.