4 ms·

I'm not sure what the use case is, for small tasks I have Sublime Text, for full on work, I have JetBrains. This /looks/ like a strange place between ST and VSC

I'm not sure what the use case is, for small tasks I have Sublime Text, for full on work, I have JetBrains. This /looks/ like a strange place between ST and VSCode

creshal 5y ago
Same. > For years folks have been asking us, “JetBrains, when will you create a lightweight editor?” I sure never did. If anything, I want their IDEs to be more involved and sophisticated. Otherwise I'm likely going to cancel our company subscriptions next year, VSCode is starting to overtake e.g. PyCharm in terms of developer comfort. So I really hope this is just a tech demonstrator to renew the architecture of their proper IDEs and they'll be picking up momentum on the latter as well.
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  For sure. I like IntelliJ, all I want is for it to be snappier; it gets pretty laggy with bigger files (like, more than one screen), it seems to have to do a lot of work that interrupts the main UI thread when it comes to redoing syntax highlighting and error checking. I mean, the main reason why I'm not using vs code for most of my work is because it's cmd+click to go to definition isn't as good, auto/hotfixes aren't as good, and refactoring support is pretty much nonexistent.
  - kaba0 5y ago
    I don’t know why Jetbrains doesn’t already switch to a newer jdk. I found this tutorial (only the vm options part) to make intellij really snappy: https://iam.georgecox.com/2021/11/24/making-jetbrains-ides-run-faster/ https://iam.georgecox.com/2021/11/24/making-jetbrains-ides-r... It basically changes the jdk to version 16 (I used one from the openjdk website, not azul) where the new low-latency ZGC garbage collector is available and increases the default heapsize. Now I have a quite large project open with 1.5GB memory used, and it is really smooth all around with no stutters.
    - atombender 5y ago
      I wish this worked. I tried switching to Azul Zulu 15 (macOS), but that rendered the IDE completely non-functional, and I had to switch back.
      - kaba0 5y ago
        Then maybe just try switching to G1GC (available in the default jetbrains runtime) and set the ms and mx memory settings to a bit higher. Maybe even experiment a bit with the max pause time setting.
        atombender 5y ago
        The only JVM that comes up on my Mac is JBRSDK 11, not sure if it has G1.
- Deukhoofd 5y ago
  > I sure never did. If anything, I want their IDEs to be more involved and sophisticated. Personally I want the language functionality to be involved and sophisticated, and the IDE itself to be as lightweight and simple as possible. Jetbrains IDEs come with a decent performance penalty from the IDE itself, and I think eliminating that would be a great benefit.
- spoils19 5y ago
  I've worked in 4 different software shops over the last 15 years. My general observation is the developers who rely on heavily automated/magic tooling are significantly outclassed by those who use the terminal + a basic text editor. Terminal + Vim or Emacs/VSCode (depending on configuration) is not only all you need, it also produces developers who understand the systems they work with. I know a lot of people will disagree but my advice to more junior guys is always get rid of the toys and learn the tools.
  - nwatson 5y ago
    Jetbrains IDEs will step into framework/library code/stack-frames/variables that you didn't write yourself and let you trace the full context of your code ... that's insight and knowledge no straight-editor will give you.
  - Zababa 5y ago
    This is a false dichotomy. You say "developers who rely on heavily automated/magic tooling" and "those who use the terminal + a basic text editor.". What of those that use heavily automated tooling but understand it? Of course people that understand stuff are better than people that don't, but this isn't directly correlated to terminal and IDE. > I know a lot of people will disagree but my advice to more junior guys is always get rid of the toys and learn the tools. You could make the same argument for writing assembly by hand, which will surely improve your skills. But that doesn't mean that a compiler is a toy. Those that learn and know the tools know their value. Senior developers at my work have a deep knowledge of lots of tools, because these tools can be very useful and save you a lot of time. They also build tools for others, to encode their knowledge and make everyone save some time.
  - Osiris 5y ago
    This is not my experience at all. If anything, junior or mid developers that use IDEs rarely even use all the "advanced" features like inline debugging and source control features. The more senior developers maximize the value they get from tooling.
  - deadcore 5y ago
    Bit of a sweeping, overgeneralisation don't you think? Don't see how the quality of the developer correlates to their choice of environment.
iCarrot 5y ago
Looks like it places itself a little above VSCode, thanks to its Intellij code engine. Also remote coding means you could have a much beefier machine elsewhere and code on a notebook on the go, for example.
- TheMode 5y ago
  Isn't it already possible using Intellij? Would have to see just how much "lightweight" it is to justify the concept
The_Colonel 5y ago
It's a Sublime/VS Code replacement for people who use heavy JetBrains IDE with a huge benefit of UI/shortcut consistency and sort of fluent transition between both ends.

I'm not sure what the use case is, for small tasks I have Sublime Text, for full on work, I have JetBrains. This /looks/ like a strange place between ST and VSCode

creshal 5y ago

Same. > For years folks have been asking us, “JetBrains, when will you create a lightweight editor?” I sure never did. If anything, I want their IDEs to be more involved and sophisticated. Otherwise I'm likely going to cancel our company subscriptions next year, VSCode is starting to overtake e.g. PyCharm in terms of developer comfort. So I really hope this is just a tech demonstrator to renew the architecture of their proper IDEs and they'll be picking up momentum on the latter as well.

Cthulhu_ 5y ago
For sure. I like IntelliJ, all I want is for it to be snappier; it gets pretty laggy with bigger files (like, more than one screen), it seems to have to do a lot of work that interrupts the main UI thread when it comes to redoing syntax highlighting and error checking. I mean, the main reason why I'm not using vs code for most of my work is because it's cmd+click to go to definition isn't as good, auto/hotfixes aren't as good, and refactoring support is pretty much nonexistent.
- kaba0 5y ago
  I don’t know why Jetbrains doesn’t already switch to a newer jdk. I found this tutorial (only the vm options part) to make intellij really snappy: https://iam.georgecox.com/2021/11/24/making-jetbrains-ides-run-faster/ https://iam.georgecox.com/2021/11/24/making-jetbrains-ides-r... It basically changes the jdk to version 16 (I used one from the openjdk website, not azul) where the new low-latency ZGC garbage collector is available and increases the default heapsize. Now I have a quite large project open with 1.5GB memory used, and it is really smooth all around with no stutters.
  - atombender 5y ago
    I wish this worked. I tried switching to Azul Zulu 15 (macOS), but that rendered the IDE completely non-functional, and I had to switch back.
    - kaba0 5y ago
      Then maybe just try switching to G1GC (available in the default jetbrains runtime) and set the ms and mx memory settings to a bit higher. Maybe even experiment a bit with the max pause time setting.
      - atombender 5y ago
        The only JVM that comes up on my Mac is JBRSDK 11, not sure if it has G1.
Deukhoofd 5y ago
> I sure never did. If anything, I want their IDEs to be more involved and sophisticated. Personally I want the language functionality to be involved and sophisticated, and the IDE itself to be as lightweight and simple as possible. Jetbrains IDEs come with a decent performance penalty from the IDE itself, and I think eliminating that would be a great benefit.
spoils19 5y ago
I've worked in 4 different software shops over the last 15 years. My general observation is the developers who rely on heavily automated/magic tooling are significantly outclassed by those who use the terminal + a basic text editor. Terminal + Vim or Emacs/VSCode (depending on configuration) is not only all you need, it also produces developers who understand the systems they work with. I know a lot of people will disagree but my advice to more junior guys is always get rid of the toys and learn the tools.
- nwatson 5y ago
  Jetbrains IDEs will step into framework/library code/stack-frames/variables that you didn't write yourself and let you trace the full context of your code ... that's insight and knowledge no straight-editor will give you.
- Zababa 5y ago
  This is a false dichotomy. You say "developers who rely on heavily automated/magic tooling" and "those who use the terminal + a basic text editor.". What of those that use heavily automated tooling but understand it? Of course people that understand stuff are better than people that don't, but this isn't directly correlated to terminal and IDE. > I know a lot of people will disagree but my advice to more junior guys is always get rid of the toys and learn the tools. You could make the same argument for writing assembly by hand, which will surely improve your skills. But that doesn't mean that a compiler is a toy. Those that learn and know the tools know their value. Senior developers at my work have a deep knowledge of lots of tools, because these tools can be very useful and save you a lot of time. They also build tools for others, to encode their knowledge and make everyone save some time.
- Osiris 5y ago
  This is not my experience at all. If anything, junior or mid developers that use IDEs rarely even use all the "advanced" features like inline debugging and source control features. The more senior developers maximize the value they get from tooling.
- deadcore 5y ago
  Bit of a sweeping, overgeneralisation don't you think? Don't see how the quality of the developer correlates to their choice of environment.

iCarrot 5y ago

Looks like it places itself a little above VSCode, thanks to its Intellij code engine. Also remote coding means you could have a much beefier machine elsewhere and code on a notebook on the go, for example.

TheMode 5y ago
Isn't it already possible using Intellij? Would have to see just how much "lightweight" it is to justify the concept

The_Colonel 5y ago

It's a Sublime/VS Code replacement for people who use heavy JetBrains IDE with a huge benefit of UI/shortcut consistency and sort of fluent transition between both ends.