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I’m very concerned that the mask debate for elementary school (and especially pre-school) is not considering the potential long term negative effects. The anti

I’m very concerned that the mask debate for elementary school (and especially pre-school) is not considering the potential long term negative effects. The anti-mask side uses false arguments about breathing too much CO2. And the pro-mask side uses irrelevant arguments about how plenty of adults wear masks all day with no harmful effects (nurses/doctors). But we’re talking about young kids here. Pre-school (age 2 - 4) is an especially critical time and early elementary is important too. This time is a short window in brain development when the brain is super elastic and learns many things. Much of language development isn’t just hearing and speaking, it’s also seeing the mouth movements. And this is the age when the brain learns how to recognize and display facial emotions. Is it possible by masking so much these young kids, we’re doing major damage to this learning process? Maybe the answer is yes, or maybe it’s no. But no one is even considering this question. It’s just endless stupid debates about masking that doesn’t at all consider the special circumstances of this critical time in life, this short window when so much happens.

vwcx 5y ago
Great. We acknowledge the importance of this developmental period. So what are the options, and which option contains a downside that is more palatable than the others? I.e. we fear the effects of total isolation of a four year old more than the risk of their stunted facial recognition practice etc etc
- dude187 5y ago
  The risk of them getting sick is not significant. People are using their trumped up unjustified fears the media and government have whipped into them into demanding _some_ form of child abuse. The only thing they're willing to question is "which form?"
  - mlyle 5y ago
    Significant hyperbole. Elementary kids do not care one bit about wearing masks indoors. They picked up the habit quickly, don't complain, and now put the rest of us to shame. Indeed, they often don't bother (not out of fear, but just forgetting or not bothering) to remove when going outside. And, the risk is much more significant than you imply, and the risk to us who work with them is substantial. I'm looking forward to masks going away eventually for a lot of reasons (though I kinda hope they become normal for e.g. the worst month of flu season, like in many other parts of the world), but calling it abuse is just ridiculous.
    - dude187 5y ago
      > Elementary kids do not care one bit about wearing masks indoors. Well I believe the opposite, and from having a teacher in the family I can tell you masks are INCREDIBLY detrimental to the educational experience. We're harming our children's education immensity by clinging to them. > , the risk is much more significant than you imply No it is not. It's not even a large enough risks in adults for the removals of freedom to have been justified, and there's MUCH, MUCH less in kids. The risk is virtually non-existent, not a worry whatsoever. If you're still sitting here in 2021 and pushing for the continual suspension of freedom "for the children" over a near nonexistent worry, you are part of the problem.
      - mlyle 5y ago
        > and from having a teacher in the family I can tell you masks are INCREDIBLY detrimental to the educational experience. OK. I'm teaching and doing fine. So are my colleagues.
        dude187 5y ago
        Well they were hugely detrimental to all the teachers I know. So either you're downplaying the impact or ignoring it.
mlyle 5y ago
> But we’re talking about young kids here. Pre-school (age 2 - 4) is an especially critical time and early elementary is important too. This time is a short window in brain development when the brain is super elastic and learns many things. Much of language development isn’t just hearing and speaking, it’s also seeing the mouth movements. And this is the age when the brain learns how to recognize and display facial emotions. Is it possible by masking so much these young kids, we’re doing major damage to this learning process? Maybe. But, on the flipside: * We spend a lot of time outside and unmasked * Many teachers use clear masks during phonics instruction and other critical times * Wearing masks makes parents more comfortable with sending their kids to school, and so is enabling more social contact. There are also some ancillary / random benefits, too. A big fraction of kids spend a big fraction of time up to age 7 fairly hearing impaired from low grade ear infections and congestion, and we're finally getting classroom audio amplification out at scale, adding a few decibels to teacher voices that will be helpful in the long term. Also one more random note: emphasizing looking at the mouth so much for emotional reading is a mostly Western thing and not universal in human cultures. I'm guessing we end up with a generation of kids that read the eyes much more.

vwcx 5y ago

Great. We acknowledge the importance of this developmental period. So what are the options, and which option contains a downside that is more palatable than the others? I.e. we fear the effects of total isolation of a four year old more than the risk of their stunted facial recognition practice etc etc

dude187 5y ago
The risk of them getting sick is not significant. People are using their trumped up unjustified fears the media and government have whipped into them into demanding _some_ form of child abuse. The only thing they're willing to question is "which form?"
- mlyle 5y ago
  Significant hyperbole. Elementary kids do not care one bit about wearing masks indoors. They picked up the habit quickly, don't complain, and now put the rest of us to shame. Indeed, they often don't bother (not out of fear, but just forgetting or not bothering) to remove when going outside. And, the risk is much more significant than you imply, and the risk to us who work with them is substantial. I'm looking forward to masks going away eventually for a lot of reasons (though I kinda hope they become normal for e.g. the worst month of flu season, like in many other parts of the world), but calling it abuse is just ridiculous.
  - dude187 5y ago
    > Elementary kids do not care one bit about wearing masks indoors. Well I believe the opposite, and from having a teacher in the family I can tell you masks are INCREDIBLY detrimental to the educational experience. We're harming our children's education immensity by clinging to them. > , the risk is much more significant than you imply No it is not. It's not even a large enough risks in adults for the removals of freedom to have been justified, and there's MUCH, MUCH less in kids. The risk is virtually non-existent, not a worry whatsoever. If you're still sitting here in 2021 and pushing for the continual suspension of freedom "for the children" over a near nonexistent worry, you are part of the problem.
    - mlyle 5y ago
      > and from having a teacher in the family I can tell you masks are INCREDIBLY detrimental to the educational experience. OK. I'm teaching and doing fine. So are my colleagues.
      - dude187 5y ago
        Well they were hugely detrimental to all the teachers I know. So either you're downplaying the impact or ignoring it.

mlyle 5y ago

> But we’re talking about young kids here. Pre-school (age 2 - 4) is an especially critical time and early elementary is important too. This time is a short window in brain development when the brain is super elastic and learns many things. Much of language development isn’t just hearing and speaking, it’s also seeing the mouth movements. And this is the age when the brain learns how to recognize and display facial emotions. Is it possible by masking so much these young kids, we’re doing major damage to this learning process? Maybe. But, on the flipside: * We spend a lot of time outside and unmasked * Many teachers use clear masks during phonics instruction and other critical times * Wearing masks makes parents more comfortable with sending their kids to school, and so is enabling more social contact. There are also some ancillary / random benefits, too. A big fraction of kids spend a big fraction of time up to age 7 fairly hearing impaired from low grade ear infections and congestion, and we're finally getting classroom audio amplification out at scale, adding a few decibels to teacher voices that will be helpful in the long term. Also one more random note: emphasizing looking at the mouth so much for emotional reading is a mostly Western thing and not universal in human cultures. I'm guessing we end up with a generation of kids that read the eyes much more.