6 ms·

Sigh. How could they? Have you ever considered economies of scale and that PINE64 don’t make extra money from preinstalling crapware that tracks you?

by linmob 5y ago

GhettoComputers 5y ago
Yes and I don’t care, I am not buying crappy hardware with “a made for Linux label” that doesn’t work. This is a $400 phone shaped device with an LCD that’s not even 1080 with a weak processor, emmc (an old iPhone 6S used nvme), single camera setup, all because I can’t uninstall apps but somehow know how to install and use mobile Linux. “Linux hardware” has no real world benefits but many more problems. Most people won’t buy it either, and rightfully so. This is why Linux on mobile will never be served by crappy hardware. It isn’t production ready and at best it’ll be really competitive for phones from 2015. I could at least expect a working phone, but I doubt they can install spyware when they can’t create an OS.
- reginold 5y ago
  What is it you want out of using Linux as your phone? I don't understand.
  - GhettoComputers 5y ago
    I like to do everything I can on the desktop. With iOS and Android they can both run CLI tools. It’s great. I am using iOS as Unix and Android as Linux, I’m not tethered to the idea of desktop Linux.
- linmob 5y ago
  But PinePhone (and likely this is going to apply to the PinePhone Pro, too) is THE development platform for so many mobile Linux projects/distributions. Unless you go the Halium route (Ubuntu Touch, Sailfish OS, Droidian) and use an aged, often vulnerable vendor kernel, what’s the benefit of having multiple cameras, but none of it works? (I am not too sure about multiple camera support on Ubuntu Touch, afaik, the secondary camera of the Volla Phone is not being used, but I may be wrong there. Hardware features do not matter if there’s no software support. Also, at least the OG PinePhone works. It’s slow, screen-on battery life is lackluster, and some carriers are a pain, but it’s usable if you know what you’re doing.
  - GhettoComputers 5y ago
    > But PinePhone (and likely this is going to apply to the PinePhone Pro, too) is THE development platform for so many mobile Linux projects/distributions. Linux is designed to be portable, so if it’s good software it’ll go to better phones. Nobody cares that Librem 5’s is THE development platform for phosh, open source is software, it holds no power to have worst hardware. > Hardware features do not matter if there’s no software support. That’s why Linux isn’t better than an android custom rom for modern devices. There are zero benefits, many more problems, no apps, and on worst more expensive hardware. Who benefits by using Pine or Linux mobile if they can run more on android or iOS? It’s why the hardware and software currently both do not matter, and the current dated hardware looks even worst when everyone knows it’ll go to better hardware; pine knew it was useless to stay on the hardware themselves. Support on owned or cheaper used devices is much more interesting, with unsupported hardware gaining new life rather than buying new devices that don’t work and are the equivalent of an untrained retiree becoming a perfect worker around retirement age.
    - linmob 5y ago
      Let's go back to your original point: That the PinePhone and Librem 5 are mentioned too often, and that (sorry if I get this slightly wrong) people should pay more attention to the Planet Computer Products, and devices supported by the UBports and postmarketOS projects. Why are PP and L5 mentioned so often? They are available as new devices and that apparently has some value of its own in our society. They also have "unique" hardware features of arguably questionable usability (hardware kill switches), and are being used by many mobile Linux developers. That's why they are popular. It's not a conspiracy. Regarding the Gemini and the Cosmo: While nice products in principle, they by design only attract a niche of users that want this form factor. While they in theory have Linux ports, these (except for the Sailfish X port for the Gemini) are unmaintained. Debian 9 "Stretch" is just not enough these days. Therefore and because the main Android OS also feels rather abandoned, there's not much interest in these devices. I would love to use them more, but there's just no interesting software and I don't have the time and resources currently to get that Debian port back to an acceptable state. With regards to postmarketOS or Ubuntu Touch devices, especially those that also run postmarketOS stable (Community devices) I wholeheartedly agree. They do deserve more attention. These are really nice devices that are well supported and cheaply available. But, sadly, having been a content creator in that field for a while I can tell you: Videos about these devices get way less clicks. This might be the self-amplifying effect that leads to less interest into these devices. It's sad, and if I ever make another video, I'll make it about a non-PINE, non-Librem phone only to then be asked in the comments why I don't share an update on the PinePhone or Librem 5 instead.

Sigh. How could they? Have you ever considered economies of scale and that PINE64 don’t make extra money from preinstalling crapware that tracks you?

by linmob 5y ago

Sigh. How could they? Have you ever considered economies of scale and that PINE64 don’t make extra money from preinstalling crapware that tracks you?

GhettoComputers 5y ago

Yes and I don’t care, I am not buying crappy hardware with “a made for Linux label” that doesn’t work. This is a $400 phone shaped device with an LCD that’s not even 1080 with a weak processor, emmc (an old iPhone 6S used nvme), single camera setup, all because I can’t uninstall apps but somehow know how to install and use mobile Linux. “Linux hardware” has no real world benefits but many more problems. Most people won’t buy it either, and rightfully so. This is why Linux on mobile will never be served by crappy hardware. It isn’t production ready and at best it’ll be really competitive for phones from 2015. I could at least expect a working phone, but I doubt they can install spyware when they can’t create an OS.

reginold 5y ago
What is it you want out of using Linux as your phone? I don't understand.
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  I like to do everything I can on the desktop. With iOS and Android they can both run CLI tools. It’s great. I am using iOS as Unix and Android as Linux, I’m not tethered to the idea of desktop Linux.
linmob 5y ago
But PinePhone (and likely this is going to apply to the PinePhone Pro, too) is THE development platform for so many mobile Linux projects/distributions. Unless you go the Halium route (Ubuntu Touch, Sailfish OS, Droidian) and use an aged, often vulnerable vendor kernel, what’s the benefit of having multiple cameras, but none of it works? (I am not too sure about multiple camera support on Ubuntu Touch, afaik, the secondary camera of the Volla Phone is not being used, but I may be wrong there. Hardware features do not matter if there’s no software support. Also, at least the OG PinePhone works. It’s slow, screen-on battery life is lackluster, and some carriers are a pain, but it’s usable if you know what you’re doing.
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  > But PinePhone (and likely this is going to apply to the PinePhone Pro, too) is THE development platform for so many mobile Linux projects/distributions. Linux is designed to be portable, so if it’s good software it’ll go to better phones. Nobody cares that Librem 5’s is THE development platform for phosh, open source is software, it holds no power to have worst hardware. > Hardware features do not matter if there’s no software support. That’s why Linux isn’t better than an android custom rom for modern devices. There are zero benefits, many more problems, no apps, and on worst more expensive hardware. Who benefits by using Pine or Linux mobile if they can run more on android or iOS? It’s why the hardware and software currently both do not matter, and the current dated hardware looks even worst when everyone knows it’ll go to better hardware; pine knew it was useless to stay on the hardware themselves. Support on owned or cheaper used devices is much more interesting, with unsupported hardware gaining new life rather than buying new devices that don’t work and are the equivalent of an untrained retiree becoming a perfect worker around retirement age.
  - linmob 5y ago
    Let's go back to your original point: That the PinePhone and Librem 5 are mentioned too often, and that (sorry if I get this slightly wrong) people should pay more attention to the Planet Computer Products, and devices supported by the UBports and postmarketOS projects. Why are PP and L5 mentioned so often? They are available as new devices and that apparently has some value of its own in our society. They also have "unique" hardware features of arguably questionable usability (hardware kill switches), and are being used by many mobile Linux developers. That's why they are popular. It's not a conspiracy. Regarding the Gemini and the Cosmo: While nice products in principle, they by design only attract a niche of users that want this form factor. While they in theory have Linux ports, these (except for the Sailfish X port for the Gemini) are unmaintained. Debian 9 "Stretch" is just not enough these days. Therefore and because the main Android OS also feels rather abandoned, there's not much interest in these devices. I would love to use them more, but there's just no interesting software and I don't have the time and resources currently to get that Debian port back to an acceptable state. With regards to postmarketOS or Ubuntu Touch devices, especially those that also run postmarketOS stable (Community devices) I wholeheartedly agree. They do deserve more attention. These are really nice devices that are well supported and cheaply available. But, sadly, having been a content creator in that field for a while I can tell you: Videos about these devices get way less clicks. This might be the self-amplifying effect that leads to less interest into these devices. It's sad, and if I ever make another video, I'll make it about a non-PINE, non-Librem phone only to then be asked in the comments why I don't share an update on the PinePhone or Librem 5 instead.