4 ms·

Maybe industries “planned obsolescence” practice?

14 5y ago
But surely some company would see it as an advantage over competitors and sell it if it was easily accessible. But we don’t see that so there has to be more to it. Maybe cost is too high for the average customer?
- masklinn 5y ago
  > Maybe cost is too high for the average customer? Well yes, and even for the non-average one. Plus the goal is generally to build things which barely stand, a building which can face the vagaries of time for thousands of years would generally be way over-engineered. Countries where pozzolanic ash is readily available do use it but that’s not usually the case. Fly ash is also being explored for that role. An other issue is understanding of the material’s properties over time. Also our modern world makes a lot of concrete.
  - metaphor 5y ago
    > Plus the goal is generally to build things which barely stand... Since when? Design criteria baked into international building code is quite robust; not just naive static load, but wind, snow, seismic activity, fire/flood/termite resistance, etc. are all considered. That's a far stretch from something that can "barely stand".
    - masklinn 5y ago
      > Since when? Since always > Design criteria baked into international building code is quite robust; not just naive static load, but wind, snow, seismic activity, fire/flood/termite resistance, etc. are all considered. That's a far stretch from something that can "barely stand". “Barely stands” in this context is “Barely passes code”, as in “any idiot can build a bridge that stands, it takes an engineer to build a bridge that barely stands”. The more you go over the more money you’re wasting.
- smt88 5y ago
  > But surely some company would see it as an advantage over competitors and sell it if it was easily accessible. This is not a guarantee. Look at manufacturers of washing machines: every company makes more money by having unreliable machines. There is no financial incentive to build a better product, and it's not easy to even prove you've built a better product.
  - eru 5y ago
    Would that logic suggest that washing machine brands are equally unreliable? If not, why not? Eg Miele benefits from having a reputation of building reliable products. They can and do charge more for that reputation, but also have to live up to it, if they want to keep it.
    - smt88 5y ago
      I've never heard of Miele. If it's a US brand, it is clearly not doing well. If it's a brand in the EU, the laws there were fixed to prevent every brand from selling intentionally defective products[1]. 1. https://uspirg.org/blogs/blog/usp/you%E2%80%99re-not-crazy-your-appliances-were-built-fail-you https://uspirg.org/blogs/blog/usp/you%E2%80%99re-not-crazy-y...
      - eru 5y ago
        Miele is a German brand with a long history. You can buy them around the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miele https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miele > Miele (/ˈmiːlə/ MEE-lə; German: [ˈmiːlə]) is a German manufacturer of high-end domestic appliances and commercial equipment, headquartered in Gütersloh, Ostwestfalen-Lippe. The company was founded in 1899 by Carl Miele and Reinhard Zinkann, and it has always been a family-owned and run company.[2] There might be laws that set some minimum standards. But (a) there are still differences between companies' approaches to quality, and (b) Miele is selling around the world also in jurisdictions were EU rules do not apply, but they still deliver on their reputation for quality.
  - lakis 5y ago
    It's not that simple. The consumers do not want washing machines that last forever. Are you sure that you want a washing machine from 1900? It was probably not electric. Aaah, you want an electric one. How about one from the 1920? What do you mean you want intelligent programs, save electricity, be gentle to the clothes and use little water/soap? These are modern improvements of the washing machine. Consumers vote with their money. They stop buying old washing machines because they don't have the features that they want. So companies stop making old washing machines and make new ones with more features.
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  Brother printers are low cost, cheap replacing the ink/toner and make good drivers. I definitely buy them only.
jacquesm 5y ago
I think designing your buildings for more than a few hundred year counts as 'excessive' and more than 250 years should not allow for being disqualified under 'planned obsolescence'.
smt88 5y ago
No. An industry does not make a plan 50+ years in advance to get more business. They do, however, save on costs by delivering products that don't last as long because their customers also don't (as a general rule) care about 50+ year time horizons.

14 5y ago

But surely some company would see it as an advantage over competitors and sell it if it was easily accessible. But we don’t see that so there has to be more to it. Maybe cost is too high for the average customer?

masklinn 5y ago
> Maybe cost is too high for the average customer? Well yes, and even for the non-average one. Plus the goal is generally to build things which barely stand, a building which can face the vagaries of time for thousands of years would generally be way over-engineered. Countries where pozzolanic ash is readily available do use it but that’s not usually the case. Fly ash is also being explored for that role. An other issue is understanding of the material’s properties over time. Also our modern world makes a lot of concrete.
- metaphor 5y ago
  > Plus the goal is generally to build things which barely stand... Since when? Design criteria baked into international building code is quite robust; not just naive static load, but wind, snow, seismic activity, fire/flood/termite resistance, etc. are all considered. That's a far stretch from something that can "barely stand".
  - masklinn 5y ago
    > Since when? Since always > Design criteria baked into international building code is quite robust; not just naive static load, but wind, snow, seismic activity, fire/flood/termite resistance, etc. are all considered. That's a far stretch from something that can "barely stand". “Barely stands” in this context is “Barely passes code”, as in “any idiot can build a bridge that stands, it takes an engineer to build a bridge that barely stands”. The more you go over the more money you’re wasting.
smt88 5y ago
> But surely some company would see it as an advantage over competitors and sell it if it was easily accessible. This is not a guarantee. Look at manufacturers of washing machines: every company makes more money by having unreliable machines. There is no financial incentive to build a better product, and it's not easy to even prove you've built a better product.
- eru 5y ago
  Would that logic suggest that washing machine brands are equally unreliable? If not, why not? Eg Miele benefits from having a reputation of building reliable products. They can and do charge more for that reputation, but also have to live up to it, if they want to keep it.
  - smt88 5y ago
    I've never heard of Miele. If it's a US brand, it is clearly not doing well. If it's a brand in the EU, the laws there were fixed to prevent every brand from selling intentionally defective products[1]. 1. https://uspirg.org/blogs/blog/usp/you%E2%80%99re-not-crazy-your-appliances-were-built-fail-you https://uspirg.org/blogs/blog/usp/you%E2%80%99re-not-crazy-y...
    - eru 5y ago
      Miele is a German brand with a long history. You can buy them around the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miele https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miele > Miele (/ˈmiːlə/ MEE-lə; German: [ˈmiːlə]) is a German manufacturer of high-end domestic appliances and commercial equipment, headquartered in Gütersloh, Ostwestfalen-Lippe. The company was founded in 1899 by Carl Miele and Reinhard Zinkann, and it has always been a family-owned and run company.[2] There might be laws that set some minimum standards. But (a) there are still differences between companies' approaches to quality, and (b) Miele is selling around the world also in jurisdictions were EU rules do not apply, but they still deliver on their reputation for quality.
- lakis 5y ago
  It's not that simple. The consumers do not want washing machines that last forever. Are you sure that you want a washing machine from 1900? It was probably not electric. Aaah, you want an electric one. How about one from the 1920? What do you mean you want intelligent programs, save electricity, be gentle to the clothes and use little water/soap? These are modern improvements of the washing machine. Consumers vote with their money. They stop buying old washing machines because they don't have the features that they want. So companies stop making old washing machines and make new ones with more features.
GhettoComputers 5y ago
Brother printers are low cost, cheap replacing the ink/toner and make good drivers. I definitely buy them only.

jacquesm 5y ago

I think designing your buildings for more than a few hundred year counts as 'excessive' and more than 250 years should not allow for being disqualified under 'planned obsolescence'.

smt88 5y ago

No. An industry does not make a plan 50+ years in advance to get more business. They do, however, save on costs by delivering products that don't last as long because their customers also don't (as a general rule) care about 50+ year time horizons.