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Emergency powers from the Patriot Act are still in effect. The problem this pandemic (and pandemics in general) is that there is no defined end and no one seem

Emergency powers from the Patriot Act are still in effect. The problem this pandemic (and pandemics in general) is that there is no defined end and no one seems to be willing to create one. It is either a certain number of deaths per million or zero (eradication), which would put us in smallpox territory - about two centuries.

ethbr0 5y ago
"The fact that humans are the only reservoir for smallpox infection and that carriers did not exist, played a significant role in the eradication of smallpox." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox#Eradication https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox#Eradication SARS-CoV-2 eradication is probably impossible.
- golemotron 5y ago
  Yup. And that's why I would not want to see a treaty. Better to have nations acting independently of each other at the policy level, learning from each other's experiences. It's like a market where nations can explore different tradeoffs in how they declare an end or live with it.
  - ethbr0 5y ago
    What if my tradeoff is "I will partially vaccinate everyone in my country and not perform any surveillance, tracking, or sequencing and stockpile any critical PPE and prohibit export of vaccines"? Absurd example, but that seems pretty harmful to every country with transportation links to me.
    - golemotron 5y ago
      There's the concept of a border. They have liabilities but they have benefits too. We are too used to thinking of them as completely bad.
tcmart14 5y ago
I do think the patriot act is a good counter example. However I think this is probably because of the point you made in the second paragraph. "There is no defined end." This is true, with COVID and the patriot act. Unfortunately, I think a reason why is because if someone defines and end point, it comes and various things are repealed and something happens, it is a career ender. Taking the Patriot Act as an example because I think it is probably the most clear cut. If tomorrow a group of politicians ended the patriot act on the premise that, no planes have smashed into buildings because of terrorists in two decades, great. But a year later, a plane crashes into a skyscraper, where will society put them blame? Unfortunately, on those politicians more than likely. Not even just planes smashing into buildings, if suddenly a suicide bomber blows off in a town square, there will be lots of people up in arms about the Patriot act being ended. Which is unfortunate, but it creates a situation where I see no politician wants to put a stake in the ground of, "this is the goal." I think propaganda by political parties (both, not a single) is to thank for that largely.
- golemotron 5y ago
  I agree, and it is largely unfixable. An additional problem comes in when people profit from the emergency powers being in place. Someone always will. Profit isn't only monetary.

ethbr0 5y ago

"The fact that humans are the only reservoir for smallpox infection and that carriers did not exist, played a significant role in the eradication of smallpox." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox#Eradication https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox#Eradication SARS-CoV-2 eradication is probably impossible.

golemotron 5y ago
Yup. And that's why I would not want to see a treaty. Better to have nations acting independently of each other at the policy level, learning from each other's experiences. It's like a market where nations can explore different tradeoffs in how they declare an end or live with it.
- ethbr0 5y ago
  What if my tradeoff is "I will partially vaccinate everyone in my country and not perform any surveillance, tracking, or sequencing and stockpile any critical PPE and prohibit export of vaccines"? Absurd example, but that seems pretty harmful to every country with transportation links to me.
  - golemotron 5y ago
    There's the concept of a border. They have liabilities but they have benefits too. We are too used to thinking of them as completely bad.

tcmart14 5y ago

I do think the patriot act is a good counter example. However I think this is probably because of the point you made in the second paragraph. "There is no defined end." This is true, with COVID and the patriot act. Unfortunately, I think a reason why is because if someone defines and end point, it comes and various things are repealed and something happens, it is a career ender. Taking the Patriot Act as an example because I think it is probably the most clear cut. If tomorrow a group of politicians ended the patriot act on the premise that, no planes have smashed into buildings because of terrorists in two decades, great. But a year later, a plane crashes into a skyscraper, where will society put them blame? Unfortunately, on those politicians more than likely. Not even just planes smashing into buildings, if suddenly a suicide bomber blows off in a town square, there will be lots of people up in arms about the Patriot act being ended. Which is unfortunate, but it creates a situation where I see no politician wants to put a stake in the ground of, "this is the goal." I think propaganda by political parties (both, not a single) is to thank for that largely.

golemotron 5y ago
I agree, and it is largely unfixable. An additional problem comes in when people profit from the emergency powers being in place. Someone always will. Profit isn't only monetary.