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I think to some extent you and the original post you replied to are both probably right. There is not some painstaking language optimization designed to trick

I think to some extent you and the original post you replied to are both probably right. There is not some painstaking language optimization designed to trick users. But there is not a filter for clarity either, so the A/B testing naturally favors "dark patterns" - it's not malicious design, it's just unintended consequences, and gives the impression that Amazon et al are deliberately hostile when they are really just ignorant

stcredzero 5y ago
the A/B testing naturally favors "dark patterns" - it's not malicious design, it's just unintended consequences Could there be such a thing as "meta-malicious design?" Bad consequences aren't executed directly, but conditions are put in place that cause the emergence of bad consequences. I suspect, if AI ever does away with Homo sapiens it will be by convincing us not to breed by changing our incentive structures.
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  > I suspect, if AI ever does away with Homo sapiens it will be by convincing us not to breed by changing our incentive structures. I think it'll be by just sitting back and waiting a few decades :)
  - stcredzero 5y ago
    I think it'll be by just sitting back and waiting a few decades :) The sci-fi tinfoil hat interpretation of this: It's already here, or at least its cronies and enablers, and the plan has already been put into effect.
- teddyh 5y ago
  “Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” — John Stuart Mill, 1867
  - stcredzero 5y ago
    I'm talking about the good people not even knowing what's happening, until they engage in data analysis.
kingcharles 5y ago
Also, humans are weird, so A/B testing, if taken to its logical conclusion, will produce surreal results. What makes a human buy something is really not that well understood, IMO. For instance, I was in charge of design for a mortgage lender's web site. I begged my manager to let me try (for lulz) an A/B test replacing the photo of the woman call centre operator next to the quote form with a photo of a Labrador retriever wearing a headset (you knew he was a professional because he also wore glasses and a necktie). The dog form consistently outperformed the woman by 19% but we had to roll it back after a couple of weeks because.. well.. dog.

stcredzero 5y ago

the A/B testing naturally favors "dark patterns" - it's not malicious design, it's just unintended consequences Could there be such a thing as "meta-malicious design?" Bad consequences aren't executed directly, but conditions are put in place that cause the emergence of bad consequences. I suspect, if AI ever does away with Homo sapiens it will be by convincing us not to breed by changing our incentive structures.

GekkePrutser 5y ago
> I suspect, if AI ever does away with Homo sapiens it will be by convincing us not to breed by changing our incentive structures. I think it'll be by just sitting back and waiting a few decades :)
- stcredzero 5y ago
  I think it'll be by just sitting back and waiting a few decades :) The sci-fi tinfoil hat interpretation of this: It's already here, or at least its cronies and enablers, and the plan has already been put into effect.
teddyh 5y ago
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” — John Stuart Mill, 1867
- stcredzero 5y ago
  I'm talking about the good people not even knowing what's happening, until they engage in data analysis.

kingcharles 5y ago

Also, humans are weird, so A/B testing, if taken to its logical conclusion, will produce surreal results. What makes a human buy something is really not that well understood, IMO. For instance, I was in charge of design for a mortgage lender's web site. I begged my manager to let me try (for lulz) an A/B test replacing the photo of the woman call centre operator next to the quote form with a photo of a Labrador retriever wearing a headset (you knew he was a professional because he also wore glasses and a necktie). The dog form consistently outperformed the woman by 19% but we had to roll it back after a couple of weeks because.. well.. dog.