8 ms·

My kid's school doesn't have windows that open. It's too new for that.

sjg007 5y ago
Your kids school should have a good HVAC then which should run 24x7 and will have a fresh air intake which does the required number of air exchanges per hour. Add in some local air cleaners too.
mlyle 5y ago
Our newer buildings don't have windows that open and have interior hallways, so some rooms don't have doors to outside. They have better building ventilation and per-room standalone air filters, though. Even just a single door open makes a big difference, IMO.
- Broken_Hippo 5y ago
  I've never attended a school that had doors to the outside from the classroom, honestly. Most, but not all, had windows that open, though.
  - mlyle 5y ago
    The difference between temperate California (why bother with the expense of indoor hallway space?) and places where it snows. :D
aspaceman 5y ago
Is that really a newer thing? My ancient high school had 45-degree windows (for theft and suicide prevention I imagine). Why lock it all down? Cost?
- mlyle 5y ago
  It's a LEED rating thing. If you can rely upon windows entirely for ventilation and thermal control, that's great. Otherwise, windows that open leak more air when you don't want them to. They also let in more humid air, which in turn has a higher specific heat capacity and requires more energy to dry the air later. Their usage tends to be uneven, so you often have open windows while AC is also running elsewhere or in the same room, and this can upset air handling. So, windows that open can paradoxically increase energy consumption in larger buildings.
  - pstoll 5y ago
    We have a local school being built. This was the argument for no operable windows. Except … a pandemic! We are optimizing for the wrong thing IMO at the expense of simple practical, human driven comfort. Same reason we don’t have windows on the local trains anymore. Practically for people in classrooms at random times, being able to open a window should be an option. Only central control of when the ventilation / heat is on just fails in so many situations.
    - mlyle 5y ago
      It's an interesting tradeoff. I like having windows that will open in my classroom. But in the larger buildings with central, indoor hallways, the benefit of windows is smaller (much less outer surface area vs. volume of space) and the potential costs are higher. Aside from pandemic-proofing, the main benefit I get is from having more ventilation when I do things that don't need to be under a hood, but still produce fumes/smoke. E.g. soldering.
    - Sargos 5y ago
      If it's still being built then it likely won't start being used until sometime next year and at that point we're back to optimizing for energy usage. It's best to pick a long term metric over a short term win when dealing with a building that will last for decades.
      - dredmorbius 5y ago
        This presumes no further epidemics / pandemics, and discounts benefits to "normal" cold and flu season.
        mlyle 5y ago
        Do you think in normal years we'll still keep classroom windows open in the middle of flu season? Even in temperate California, the costs to classroom comfort and running HVAC to try and overcome outdoor temperatures is ridiculous. Good modern buildings are being built with more ventilation and heat recovery built in. Taking this over windows that open can be a reasonable trade. Yes, on the pandemic axis, many of these buildings may be a little worse than a classroom with a whole long wall of opening windows.
- Gigachad 5y ago
  When I worked in an office, they had all of the windows screwed in to prevent opening to comply with new building codes. I imagine for suicide and accident prevention. It looks like these days you can only have windows that wind out a little. My apartment has these, but it also has an option on the AC controls to bring outside air in which can force ventilation if it isn't windy outside. This is mostly for tall buildings though. For a school, it could be that they want to be able to control the airflow and AC. Having a window open could be letting out the heat causing the heating to work harder for no reason.
Eelongate 5y ago
There's a tool for that: a brick.
- doubled112 5y ago
  True. All windows open. Some are harder to close back up than others.
  - koilke 5y ago
    Defenestration of covid

Your kids school should have a good HVAC then which should run 24x7 and will have a fresh air intake which does the required number of air exchanges per hour. Add in some local air cleaners too.

mlyle 5y ago

Our newer buildings don't have windows that open and have interior hallways, so some rooms don't have doors to outside. They have better building ventilation and per-room standalone air filters, though. Even just a single door open makes a big difference, IMO.

Broken_Hippo 5y ago
I've never attended a school that had doors to the outside from the classroom, honestly. Most, but not all, had windows that open, though.
- mlyle 5y ago
  The difference between temperate California (why bother with the expense of indoor hallway space?) and places where it snows. :D

aspaceman 5y ago

Is that really a newer thing? My ancient high school had 45-degree windows (for theft and suicide prevention I imagine). Why lock it all down? Cost?

mlyle 5y ago
It's a LEED rating thing. If you can rely upon windows entirely for ventilation and thermal control, that's great. Otherwise, windows that open leak more air when you don't want them to. They also let in more humid air, which in turn has a higher specific heat capacity and requires more energy to dry the air later. Their usage tends to be uneven, so you often have open windows while AC is also running elsewhere or in the same room, and this can upset air handling. So, windows that open can paradoxically increase energy consumption in larger buildings.
- pstoll 5y ago
  We have a local school being built. This was the argument for no operable windows. Except … a pandemic! We are optimizing for the wrong thing IMO at the expense of simple practical, human driven comfort. Same reason we don’t have windows on the local trains anymore. Practically for people in classrooms at random times, being able to open a window should be an option. Only central control of when the ventilation / heat is on just fails in so many situations.
  - mlyle 5y ago
    It's an interesting tradeoff. I like having windows that will open in my classroom. But in the larger buildings with central, indoor hallways, the benefit of windows is smaller (much less outer surface area vs. volume of space) and the potential costs are higher. Aside from pandemic-proofing, the main benefit I get is from having more ventilation when I do things that don't need to be under a hood, but still produce fumes/smoke. E.g. soldering.
  - Sargos 5y ago
    If it's still being built then it likely won't start being used until sometime next year and at that point we're back to optimizing for energy usage. It's best to pick a long term metric over a short term win when dealing with a building that will last for decades.
    - dredmorbius 5y ago
      This presumes no further epidemics / pandemics, and discounts benefits to "normal" cold and flu season.
      - mlyle 5y ago
        Do you think in normal years we'll still keep classroom windows open in the middle of flu season? Even in temperate California, the costs to classroom comfort and running HVAC to try and overcome outdoor temperatures is ridiculous. Good modern buildings are being built with more ventilation and heat recovery built in. Taking this over windows that open can be a reasonable trade. Yes, on the pandemic axis, many of these buildings may be a little worse than a classroom with a whole long wall of opening windows.
Gigachad 5y ago
When I worked in an office, they had all of the windows screwed in to prevent opening to comply with new building codes. I imagine for suicide and accident prevention. It looks like these days you can only have windows that wind out a little. My apartment has these, but it also has an option on the AC controls to bring outside air in which can force ventilation if it isn't windy outside. This is mostly for tall buildings though. For a school, it could be that they want to be able to control the airflow and AC. Having a window open could be letting out the heat causing the heating to work harder for no reason.

Eelongate 5y ago

There's a tool for that: a brick.

doubled112 5y ago
True. All windows open. Some are harder to close back up than others.
- koilke 5y ago
  Defenestration of covid