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I had a septoplasty (to fix a deviated septum) and a turbinate reduction via submucosal debrider. For the first two weeks after the operation, I experienced sev

by vecter 5y ago

I had a septoplasty (to fix a deviated septum) and a turbinate reduction via submucosal debrider. For the first two weeks after the operation, I experienced severe Empty Nose Syndrome. I felt like I was suffocating and short of breath all of the time. I slept two hours every night. It was excruciating in a way that I simply cannot put into words. After two days, I had thoughts of ending my life. It was that bad. Luckily I've healed since the operation but still have mild symptoms a few months after. For a while, I had too much "openness" in my nose which felt like there was little to no air resistance. I still get that sometimes. I'm lucky though because I'm back to 70% normal. However, I'm in a private Facebook group for ENS sufferers with over 3,000 people and reading about their daily struggles is absolutely brutal, especially since I was going crazy after experiencing them for only a week or two. For anyone considering a turbinate reduction, DO NOT DO IT. The risks are too great, and unfortunately the ENT community has a perverse incentive to hide the facts. To give you a sense of this, the week after my operation when I was struggling with the suffocating feeling, I told my ENT surgeon and he coldly offered to give me antidepressants. I was shocked and livid, because I knew that he knew exactly what was going on, but instead of acknowledging the problem, he tried to sweep it under the rug and treat it as a psychological illness. I guarantee you as someone who's experienced it, it is everything except for psychological. You won't find good data on ENS risk because almost no ENTs will actually diagnose it. My primary ENT (not the ENT surgeon who performed the operation) basically told me that I didn't have it because I still had my turbinates. This is also blatantly false [0]. My ENT suggested that I should see a pulmonologist but my lungs are totally fine. They will do everything they can to deny and deflect responsibility. Don't let yourself been their next victim. Feel free to reach out to me if you have more questions or are considering getting a turbinate reduction. My contact info is in my profile. I cannot urge you strongly enough to avoid this operation at all costs. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVWHOQ7P3wk&t=6m13s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVWHOQ7P3wk&t=6m13s

diob 5y ago
Damn, I got goaded into this to "fix" my sleep apnea. Didn't really fix it, I still needed a cpap. I can breathe out my nose now, but it's always felt wrong. And my sense of smell sucks.
- nitrogen 5y ago
  Just to provide a counterpoint, so people aren't completely scared from the idea of turbinate reductions or septoplasty, my breathing felt amazing right after I had mine in my early 20s. Huge improvement, and I could still smell well enough to detect that a magician was using real wine on stage for a trick while seated in the front row 30 feet away.
  - diob 5y ago
    I still would do some sort of septoplasty, before that I couldn't breathe out my nose at all. Now I use nasal pillows for my cpap, so it was mostly worth it in the end.
  - dannyw 5y ago
    Second counterpoint. Incredible improvement in quality of life after turbinate reduction surgery. Air felt a little cold for a couople months, but completely normal now. Prior symptoms: very difficult to breath through the nose at night, so had to mouthbreathe.
tinyhouse 5y ago
I totally agree that no one should remove turbinates. From my understanding almost no ENTs do it anymore as there's much more knowledge about consequences such as ENS. I was told by one ENT that many ENTs in tropical countries would get away with it because of the humid conditions. But I should also note my story. I went to do a surgery because I had some sinus infections and an ENT lied to me that I had deviated septum. I always suffered from sleep apnea so I thought maybe it'd help fixing it. I went and did the surgery. The ENT never told me she is going to remove one of the turbinates, nor it was in the post surgery report. I found out about it by another ENT who checked my before and after scans. The surgery also caused structural change so mocus gets stuck in my nose and I suffer from dryness. I rinse but I don't find it very helpful beyond a temporary relief which I usually get from hot showers anyway. Now I do it once a week with Alkalol and xylitol. My luck is that all the damage happened only in one nostril. I have one nostril that is perfectly fine and somehow just learned to live with this condition. The biggest issue is sleep. I now have both sleep apnea and this new issue and I even developed insomnia years after the surgery. Somehow I managed to treat my insomnia by sleeping on my side on an elevated topper and pillow. I just need to find a solution that would keep me on my side all night. CPAP also helps because of the humidifier but it's hard for me to sleep with one all night.
- whoisthemachine 5y ago
  For forcing your body to remain on your side, there is a simple "belt" that you can wear which has attached air pockets that keep you on your side. I can't use these because my back explodes in pain, but I think they are successful for many others without such sensitive backs as mine. https://rematee.com/ https://rematee.com/
  - tinyhouse 5y ago
    Thank you! I will look into it. I found something similar from a company called WoodyKnows I think. But the Amazon reviews were not positive so I ended up not ordering it. I usually like sleeping without a shirt and will probably be hot sleeping with something like this. But I guess it's worth trying at least if I can return it. One reviewer mentioned their best solution was buying a vest and sewing a few pockets in the back for tennis balls.
semerda 5y ago
Yikes. Sorry to hear this procedure didn't go as you hoped. For me I tried radiofrequency at PAMF but it only lasted about a year before my nasal issues returned and I ended up getting septoplasty with turbinate reduction. For me it was mostly a success and to this date I enjoy breathing through my nose with ease. I wonder whether the difference between mine and yours is the volume of turbinate reduction. Prior to all this I was hooked on Afrin for 2 years. Lost my sense of smell. Bloody oxymetazoline! I finally understood what drug addiction is. It was awful. The rebound effect was devastating which meant I could never get off it. The rebound effect felt like I was choking at night. My septoplasty saved me and I no longer use Afrin. My sense of smell returned after a year post surgery. Few weeks ago I had a cold and a stuffy nose and tried Afrin which was wonderful but stopped it after 3 days. That stuff is evil! Today, I only use NeilMed Sinus Rinse morning and night and love it. It's the most effective way to clean your nasal passages and when sick it drains the passages of all the gunk. Cannot recommend the sinus rinse enough!
everydayDonut 5y ago
Yours is the first story I've read that's close to mine. I was sure that I had ENS after because it was so bad that I wanted to die. I told my ENT about my concerns and he said it wouldn't be possible because it was just a 25% reduction in turbinates. It got better, but now I can't fall asleep if the air temperature isn't just right, and my chest gets really tight when I'm breathing cold air. For me it was worth it overall, but the nonchalant attitude from the ENT specialists is insane.
- TenJack 5y ago
  Wonder if a CPAP with a heated tube could help? You could control the temperature and humidity in your sinuses.

by vecter 5y ago

diob 5y ago

Damn, I got goaded into this to "fix" my sleep apnea. Didn't really fix it, I still needed a cpap. I can breathe out my nose now, but it's always felt wrong. And my sense of smell sucks.

nitrogen 5y ago
Just to provide a counterpoint, so people aren't completely scared from the idea of turbinate reductions or septoplasty, my breathing felt amazing right after I had mine in my early 20s. Huge improvement, and I could still smell well enough to detect that a magician was using real wine on stage for a trick while seated in the front row 30 feet away.
- diob 5y ago
  I still would do some sort of septoplasty, before that I couldn't breathe out my nose at all. Now I use nasal pillows for my cpap, so it was mostly worth it in the end.
- dannyw 5y ago
  Second counterpoint. Incredible improvement in quality of life after turbinate reduction surgery. Air felt a little cold for a couople months, but completely normal now. Prior symptoms: very difficult to breath through the nose at night, so had to mouthbreathe.

tinyhouse 5y ago

I totally agree that no one should remove turbinates. From my understanding almost no ENTs do it anymore as there's much more knowledge about consequences such as ENS. I was told by one ENT that many ENTs in tropical countries would get away with it because of the humid conditions. But I should also note my story. I went to do a surgery because I had some sinus infections and an ENT lied to me that I had deviated septum. I always suffered from sleep apnea so I thought maybe it'd help fixing it. I went and did the surgery. The ENT never told me she is going to remove one of the turbinates, nor it was in the post surgery report. I found out about it by another ENT who checked my before and after scans. The surgery also caused structural change so mocus gets stuck in my nose and I suffer from dryness. I rinse but I don't find it very helpful beyond a temporary relief which I usually get from hot showers anyway. Now I do it once a week with Alkalol and xylitol. My luck is that all the damage happened only in one nostril. I have one nostril that is perfectly fine and somehow just learned to live with this condition. The biggest issue is sleep. I now have both sleep apnea and this new issue and I even developed insomnia years after the surgery. Somehow I managed to treat my insomnia by sleeping on my side on an elevated topper and pillow. I just need to find a solution that would keep me on my side all night. CPAP also helps because of the humidifier but it's hard for me to sleep with one all night.

whoisthemachine 5y ago
For forcing your body to remain on your side, there is a simple "belt" that you can wear which has attached air pockets that keep you on your side. I can't use these because my back explodes in pain, but I think they are successful for many others without such sensitive backs as mine. https://rematee.com/ https://rematee.com/
- tinyhouse 5y ago
  Thank you! I will look into it. I found something similar from a company called WoodyKnows I think. But the Amazon reviews were not positive so I ended up not ordering it. I usually like sleeping without a shirt and will probably be hot sleeping with something like this. But I guess it's worth trying at least if I can return it. One reviewer mentioned their best solution was buying a vest and sewing a few pockets in the back for tennis balls.

semerda 5y ago

Yikes. Sorry to hear this procedure didn't go as you hoped. For me I tried radiofrequency at PAMF but it only lasted about a year before my nasal issues returned and I ended up getting septoplasty with turbinate reduction. For me it was mostly a success and to this date I enjoy breathing through my nose with ease. I wonder whether the difference between mine and yours is the volume of turbinate reduction. Prior to all this I was hooked on Afrin for 2 years. Lost my sense of smell. Bloody oxymetazoline! I finally understood what drug addiction is. It was awful. The rebound effect was devastating which meant I could never get off it. The rebound effect felt like I was choking at night. My septoplasty saved me and I no longer use Afrin. My sense of smell returned after a year post surgery. Few weeks ago I had a cold and a stuffy nose and tried Afrin which was wonderful but stopped it after 3 days. That stuff is evil! Today, I only use NeilMed Sinus Rinse morning and night and love it. It's the most effective way to clean your nasal passages and when sick it drains the passages of all the gunk. Cannot recommend the sinus rinse enough!

everydayDonut 5y ago

Yours is the first story I've read that's close to mine. I was sure that I had ENS after because it was so bad that I wanted to die. I told my ENT about my concerns and he said it wouldn't be possible because it was just a 25% reduction in turbinates. It got better, but now I can't fall asleep if the air temperature isn't just right, and my chest gets really tight when I'm breathing cold air. For me it was worth it overall, but the nonchalant attitude from the ENT specialists is insane.

TenJack 5y ago
Wonder if a CPAP with a heated tube could help? You could control the temperature and humidity in your sinuses.