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That isn’t a selling point when Google has been added mainline support for the hardware since Android 8.0 with project treble and now plans to use a generic ker

That isn’t a selling point when Google has been added mainline support for the hardware since Android 8.0 with project treble and now plans to use a generic kernel and upstream to mainline Linux for android. Lots of Qualcomm chips already have mainline support. Kernel support as a selling point matters little when the hardware both companies sell can't function properly, isn’t currently supported, its proof mainline linux support doesn't really mean a functional device, or real support, it is an empty promise and preys on hope that the long outdated hardware they sell new devices with might eventually might work with modern software of the future one day. https://www.xda-developers.com/android-project-mainline-modules-explanation/ https://www.xda-developers.com/android-project-mainline-modu... https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Android-Linux-Upstream-First https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Android-...

fsflover 5y ago
Are the Qualcomm drivers FLOSS or will we have to rely on their willingness to update them for future kernels?
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  No idea what that means, but I don’t see the relevancy or mind if it’s not, with corporations contributing most of the code like Microsoft and hardware companies such as Intel.
  - fsflover 5y ago
    Corporations contributing code is great. The problem occurs when you cannot upgrade your Linux kernel, because the drivers are proprietary and Qualcomm won't release a new version (which is AFAIK how they always behave). Even if currently it supports the mainline, it will not support it forever. Only FLOSS drivers can allow lifetime updates, without planned obsolescence.
    - GhettoComputers 5y ago
      Why does that matter? 5.14 drops IDE support and lots of other old hardware, nothing is forever. You thought they’d support basically useless hardware nobody uses forever? How many years of “lifetime” do you realistically expect out of the slow Pinephone or Librem 5 hardware? Even sold new they’re ancient parts, how is using old weak hardware and selling it as a new smartphone of all electronics not obviously planned obsolescence? It’s possible someone will volunteer to keep updating the hardware drivers to phones that will be killed by the minimum requirements being raised and network changes but I see the hardware as obsolete already.
      - fsflover 5y ago
        > nothing is forever How long is a single Linux version supported? My 12+-year-old laptop currently runs latest Debian, and I don't expect that it's support will end soon. Why would the phones be different? The whole point of L5 and PP is that they are like desktops running desktop OS. Even old Raspberry Pis can serve for good today. The Moor's law is gone. > How many years of “lifetime” do you realistically expect out of the slow Pinephone or Librem 5 hardware? I expect >10 years. Why do I have to change my phones every 3 years and multiply e-waste? The phones (especially L5) can do practically everything, except heavy calculations. They can also serve as thin clients for the latter. Much older Linux phone OpenMoko is still supported, and there is a community for it. > how is using old weak hardware and selling it as a new smartphone of all electronics not obviously planned obsolescence? It sort of is, but it's due to the lack of modern free-software-supporting vendors. By buying these two phones, you vote for such hardware with your wallet (I did).
        GhettoComputers 5y ago
        Was that laptop a low end one with repackaged older hardware that wasn’t functional out of box and had no drivers or support? What can that laptop, openmoku or a raspberry pi do that someone would care about? How is selling old nonfunctional hardware not planned obsolescence?
        5y ago

fsflover 5y ago

Are the Qualcomm drivers FLOSS or will we have to rely on their willingness to update them for future kernels?

GhettoComputers 5y ago
No idea what that means, but I don’t see the relevancy or mind if it’s not, with corporations contributing most of the code like Microsoft and hardware companies such as Intel.
- fsflover 5y ago
  Corporations contributing code is great. The problem occurs when you cannot upgrade your Linux kernel, because the drivers are proprietary and Qualcomm won't release a new version (which is AFAIK how they always behave). Even if currently it supports the mainline, it will not support it forever. Only FLOSS drivers can allow lifetime updates, without planned obsolescence.
  - GhettoComputers 5y ago
    Why does that matter? 5.14 drops IDE support and lots of other old hardware, nothing is forever. You thought they’d support basically useless hardware nobody uses forever? How many years of “lifetime” do you realistically expect out of the slow Pinephone or Librem 5 hardware? Even sold new they’re ancient parts, how is using old weak hardware and selling it as a new smartphone of all electronics not obviously planned obsolescence? It’s possible someone will volunteer to keep updating the hardware drivers to phones that will be killed by the minimum requirements being raised and network changes but I see the hardware as obsolete already.
    - fsflover 5y ago
      > nothing is forever How long is a single Linux version supported? My 12+-year-old laptop currently runs latest Debian, and I don't expect that it's support will end soon. Why would the phones be different? The whole point of L5 and PP is that they are like desktops running desktop OS. Even old Raspberry Pis can serve for good today. The Moor's law is gone. > How many years of “lifetime” do you realistically expect out of the slow Pinephone or Librem 5 hardware? I expect >10 years. Why do I have to change my phones every 3 years and multiply e-waste? The phones (especially L5) can do practically everything, except heavy calculations. They can also serve as thin clients for the latter. Much older Linux phone OpenMoko is still supported, and there is a community for it. > how is using old weak hardware and selling it as a new smartphone of all electronics not obviously planned obsolescence? It sort of is, but it's due to the lack of modern free-software-supporting vendors. By buying these two phones, you vote for such hardware with your wallet (I did).
      - GhettoComputers 5y ago
        Was that laptop a low end one with repackaged older hardware that wasn’t functional out of box and had no drivers or support? What can that laptop, openmoku or a raspberry pi do that someone would care about? How is selling old nonfunctional hardware not planned obsolescence?
        5y ago