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> Another positive side of the US is that there seems to be more opportunities, particularly if you are white or Asian and work in tech. Excuse me? If there’s

by ecf 5y ago

> Another positive side of the US is that there seems to be more opportunities, particularly if you are white or Asian and work in tech. Excuse me? If there’s anything I’ve learned in about two months of applying is that no company wants yet another white, male engineer.

akhosravian 5y ago
If I’ve learned anything in my decade plus in tech on both sides of the hiring table it’s almost no one cares about the race/gender of candidates, and that lack of care generally favors white men. Not through bad intent from folks doing the hiring just through human things: white men are more likely to know what to expect from a tech interview, or even to know someone who can give them an inside scoop. Without even getting into how off putting some job listings can be to many folks not extremely steeped in nerd culture. The actual interview process everywhere I’ve worked has been pretty rigid and without doing some form of blinding on the code parts could not be more neutral to the candidates identity. Which is to say: if you’re not getting interviews as an experienced software engineer you must have something glaringly wrong with your resume. Maybe have a trusted friend or former coworker take a look. If you’re not getting offers from at least some of those interviews you probably need to brush up on your algorithms, and make sure you’re actually conversational in all the things listed on your resume.
- ecf 5y ago
  > experienced software engineer I’m an associate-level engineer. Why would a company, many of which are increasingly proud of their diverse team, pick a white engineer when there are hundreds of equally skilled junior applicants that won’t bring down their recruiting metrics? I’ve literally seen recruiting KPIs at previous startups involve how many black or woman engineers they hire in a quarter. My current attempts at breaking into the industry is currently being made more difficult by the previous decades of inequity in software engineering teams.
  - cplanas 5y ago
    Because diversity efforts are largely ineffectual and, if you are interviewed by people of your own race, unconscious bias will help you. Some studies showed certain ethnic markers are harmful for applicants: https://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/employers-replies-racial-names https://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/employers-replies-racial-n... https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/minorities-who-whiten-job-resumes-get-more-interviews https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/minorities-who-whiten-job-resumes...
- trcarney 5y ago
  >If I’ve learned anything in my decade plus in tech on both sides of the hiring table it’s almost no one cares about the race/gender of candidates, and that lack of care generally favors white men. I don't think it "favors" white men. Go into any university Computer Science or engineering class and what will you find? Mostly White men and foreign students. Of course there will be other genders and ethnic groups but the majority of students are white men and foreign students. Therefore most of the candidates for jobs right out of school for most engineering positions at tech companies are white men because it is hard for foreign students to obtain work permits. This would say the issue with diversity needs to be solved elsewhere. I think businesses should be judged on the diversity of the departments based on the diversity of people with the proper credentials. It is as asinine to think a tech company's engineering department should match the demographics of society when the demographics of the people obtaining the necessary skills to work in that department are so far off. You can find demographics data here: https://datausa.io/profile/cip/computer-science-110701 https://datausa.io/profile/cip/computer-science-110701
  - cplanas 5y ago
    I kind of agree here, but the problem is that big tech is not even matching the "demographics of the people obtaining the necessary skills to work in that department". According to your own data, Hispanics got 8.16% of CS degrees; African Americans got 3.81%. Facebook tech workers are 4.6% Hispanics and 2.1% Black. Google tech workers are 5.3% Hispanic and 2.9% Black. Both companies are far away from even matching the percentages of the candidate field. Sources: https://about.fb.com/news/2021/07/facebook-diversity-report-2021/ https://about.fb.com/news/2021/07/facebook-diversity-report-... https://console.cloud.google.com/bigquery?p=bigquery-public-data&d=google_dei&page=table&project=api-project-576464902953&t=dar_non_intersectional_representation&ws=!1m9!1m3!3m2!1sbigquery-public-data!2sgoogle_dei!1m4!4m3!1sbigquery-public-data!2sgoogle_dei!3sdar_non_intersectional_representation https://console.cloud.google.com/bigquery?p=bigquery-public-...

by ecf 5y ago

akhosravian 5y ago

If I’ve learned anything in my decade plus in tech on both sides of the hiring table it’s almost no one cares about the race/gender of candidates, and that lack of care generally favors white men. Not through bad intent from folks doing the hiring just through human things: white men are more likely to know what to expect from a tech interview, or even to know someone who can give them an inside scoop. Without even getting into how off putting some job listings can be to many folks not extremely steeped in nerd culture. The actual interview process everywhere I’ve worked has been pretty rigid and without doing some form of blinding on the code parts could not be more neutral to the candidates identity. Which is to say: if you’re not getting interviews as an experienced software engineer you must have something glaringly wrong with your resume. Maybe have a trusted friend or former coworker take a look. If you’re not getting offers from at least some of those interviews you probably need to brush up on your algorithms, and make sure you’re actually conversational in all the things listed on your resume.

ecf 5y ago
> experienced software engineer I’m an associate-level engineer. Why would a company, many of which are increasingly proud of their diverse team, pick a white engineer when there are hundreds of equally skilled junior applicants that won’t bring down their recruiting metrics? I’ve literally seen recruiting KPIs at previous startups involve how many black or woman engineers they hire in a quarter. My current attempts at breaking into the industry is currently being made more difficult by the previous decades of inequity in software engineering teams.
- cplanas 5y ago
  Because diversity efforts are largely ineffectual and, if you are interviewed by people of your own race, unconscious bias will help you. Some studies showed certain ethnic markers are harmful for applicants: https://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/employers-replies-racial-names https://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/employers-replies-racial-n... https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/minorities-who-whiten-job-resumes-get-more-interviews https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/minorities-who-whiten-job-resumes...
trcarney 5y ago
>If I’ve learned anything in my decade plus in tech on both sides of the hiring table it’s almost no one cares about the race/gender of candidates, and that lack of care generally favors white men. I don't think it "favors" white men. Go into any university Computer Science or engineering class and what will you find? Mostly White men and foreign students. Of course there will be other genders and ethnic groups but the majority of students are white men and foreign students. Therefore most of the candidates for jobs right out of school for most engineering positions at tech companies are white men because it is hard for foreign students to obtain work permits. This would say the issue with diversity needs to be solved elsewhere. I think businesses should be judged on the diversity of the departments based on the diversity of people with the proper credentials. It is as asinine to think a tech company's engineering department should match the demographics of society when the demographics of the people obtaining the necessary skills to work in that department are so far off. You can find demographics data here: https://datausa.io/profile/cip/computer-science-110701 https://datausa.io/profile/cip/computer-science-110701
- cplanas 5y ago
  I kind of agree here, but the problem is that big tech is not even matching the "demographics of the people obtaining the necessary skills to work in that department". According to your own data, Hispanics got 8.16% of CS degrees; African Americans got 3.81%. Facebook tech workers are 4.6% Hispanics and 2.1% Black. Google tech workers are 5.3% Hispanic and 2.9% Black. Both companies are far away from even matching the percentages of the candidate field. Sources: https://about.fb.com/news/2021/07/facebook-diversity-report-2021/ https://about.fb.com/news/2021/07/facebook-diversity-report-... https://console.cloud.google.com/bigquery?p=bigquery-public-data&d=google_dei&page=table&project=api-project-576464902953&t=dar_non_intersectional_representation&ws=!1m9!1m3!3m2!1sbigquery-public-data!2sgoogle_dei!1m4!4m3!1sbigquery-public-data!2sgoogle_dei!3sdar_non_intersectional_representation https://console.cloud.google.com/bigquery?p=bigquery-public-...