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>went straight to a pirate site Pirates rob ships in the see and use guns for that purpose I presume. What a web site providing access to the music has to do w

>went straight to a pirate site Pirates rob ships in the see and use guns for that purpose I presume. What a web site providing access to the music has to do with it? The whole 'buy mp3' idea always have been troubling for me because I can't figure out exactly what I actually buy there. What is it I purchase? The right to listen for some composition? The right to listen it in that specific mp3 format ? The right to listen it more then one time because I have access to the file? What do I actually possess after the purchase that I didn't possess before? If it's my property then what is it? Is it a property at all if the usage of it is limited? For instance it belongs to me but somehow there are some limits to play it in my own restaurant, isn't it? It's all presented as you buy something and it's clear what you buy. But if you are trying to think about it's more and more unclear. It looks more like some bully simply blocks access to something he got using some leverage over the author then sells you 'unblock' feature while author is stripped away from any rights by the same bully and have no ability to sell it directly to you. Isn't it a case now days of redundant MIM? Another issue is with how long it is blocked by paywall. The initial idea was how much? 10 years ? 15 years? How come that let's say Beatles are still protected from public? How that even possible and why nobody rises the issue of abusing initial idea?

muspimerol 5y ago
All of your questions have to do with copyright, which has little to do with the format of the thing you're purchasing (an mp3).
lelandfe 5y ago
> Pirates rob ships in the see and use guns for that purpose I presume. What a web site providing access to the music has to do with it? "Piracy" has been a term of art in the copyright world for over 100 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Copyrightpirates.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Copyrightpirates.jpg > Is it a property at all if the usage of it is limited? If you buy a copy of a book, you are not eligible to reprint that book and sell it yourself. There are limits on what folks can do with copyrighted works they buy. It might be worth reading, for instance, about the American concept of first-sale doctrine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine
- betterunix2 5y ago
  "Piracy" has been a propaganda term in the copyright world... FTFY
  - 123pie123 5y ago
    Piracy implies theft and sounds more serious; where as copyright infringement does not sounds as exciting... (from wikipedia...) Copyright infringement is the use of works protected by copyright law without permission for a usage where such permission is required, thereby infringing certain exclusive rights granted to the copyright holder, such as the right to reproduce, distribute, display or perform the protected work, or to make derivative works Theft is the taking of another person's property or services without that person's permission or consent with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it.
  - akomtu 5y ago
    The correct term is probably greed: not giving back to the author of music, movie, software you use. But greed is also the foundation of our economy, so copyright owners had to come up with a different word.
    - betterunix2 5y ago
      Copyrights have very little to do with paying content creators. From the very first copyright law (the Statute of Anne) it was about securing profits for the industry, who invariably give only a tiny slice of those profits, if anything, to the content creators. Hollywood studios are famous for trying to screw actors, screenwriters, and others out of their share of blockbuster movie profits. Likewise with the music industry -- most musicians do not make anything close to enough money on record sales (or the modern equivalent) to live on, even as the studios themselves bring in vast sums of money. So in a sense you are right, "greed" is the operative word -- not on the part of people who download, but on the part of the people who benefit most from the copyright system.
- lovelyviking 5y ago
  It's unclear why 'monopoly over making copies' is called in your comment by confusing term 'copyright'. Why something that is not 'right' and cannot exist as 'right' called by this strange term? How one can have 'right' over what others do? May be you can explain also that? If such 'right' even exist then it belongs to people who wish to make copy of something isn't it? It's hard to see why how and who on earth is entitled to prohibit to anyone in having right to make a copy as long as a person who makes copy doesn't present such copy as original.
mistrial9 5y ago
We travel in ships, further than most Raiding and pillaging, from North to South coast We steal only metal like guns, tanks and toasters! We melt them all down, and make .. roller coasters! -anonymous
betterunix2 5y ago
"The whole 'buy mp3' idea always have been troubling for me because I can't figure out exactly what I actually buy there. What is it I purchase?" You purchased convenience -- not having to deal with filesharing systems that are polluted with various misidentified files, not having to try to figure out if the thing you are downloading is actually malware (for non-technical users this is often a challenge), not having to correct / create tags for the MP3 (artist/album/etc.), not having to guess at the quality of the audio (sometimes "lossless" actually means "preserved loss from some other format"), etc. For most people the convenience justifies the price.
- dTal 5y ago
  I think the parent meant something a bit different than "what are the pragmatic advantages of buying an mp3 as opposed to piracy" - rather, they wanted some kind of handle on what - legally and/or ethically - has actually been purchased.
danachow 5y ago
This does not even rise to high school level discourse. All of the points you bring up have been discussed more critically and insightfully on Body building forums. I’ll start with that you seem to be hung up on that the only thing money can be exchanged for is property.
- taejo 5y ago
  Thanks for the info. Next time I want to know what Amazon means when they sell me "MP3 Music", I will remember to go to body building forums before clicking "Buy"
  - behringer 5y ago
    Amazon does provide the MP3 files themselves. https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=G6S668ZHKA8MK6T7 https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=... They surely make it difficult to find, though.
    - pulsarmx 5y ago
      I used to be able to actually buy MP3s from Amazon US. I actually have bought and downloaded a few albums this way. Then they launched Amazon Music (or whatever its name is) in my country, which only provides app-based access to music, and also took away my ability to buy MP3s from the US website and neglected to add it to my country's version of Amazon.
    - cheese_van 5y ago
      I tried to follow those convoluted instructions to no avail. Did it not like my Linux box? Who knows. But a company that made its fortunes making buying convenient should know better.
  - skinnymuch 5y ago
    Your comment isn’t consistent with what you replied to. They said the discourse is better than that comment. Taking that to consulting the forums to know what Amazon means appears to not be a good faith response.
npteljes 5y ago
Culture and language evolve, an pirating became meaning getting authorized works without compensating the copyright holders. Apprently this usage dates back to the 1600s.[0] >What is it I purchase? Something that's legal according to your region's laws, copyright laws and the EULA. In case of unDRM-ed downloadable files, you most likely purchase the right for personal enjoyment or private screening of the media contained within the files, and of course the store often provides the files themselves too. As you noted, the legal part is often murky. In case of Hungary, you're permitted for example to back up your legally owned media, so you can legally rip your CDs for yourself. But this is not true for all regions. The copyright of the composition, the right the redistribute, or usage in a commercial environment is most often excluded when you just "buy and mp3". These are special cases where you need a different legal instrument, like a contract or license, and to pay way more than €1 per track. Now, onto the dark patterns. The media industry is rife with this. The first is that often you can read "buying", but it's way more restricted legally, and sometimes, the media itself is crippled with a mechanism that tries to enforce some legality[1] - this would be the DRM. Region locking, unskippable anti-piracy segment on the DVD, files that "stop working" after a while, media that's encrypted from file to display, albums/games disappearing or downgrading from your catalogue, there's a lot. Meanwhile you're often presented with how easy and cheap all this is, and how much in control you are - no you're not. If you feel angry or betrayed, that's because you're realizing the con. What can you do about this? Pirating is fine as a fuck you to the industry, but the creators of all the enjoyable goodness deserve compensation just like everyone else who does good work. So you can look for ways to support them that's more direct than licensing their music from a streaming giant. Bandcamp[2], for one, is quite excellent towards users and artists alike. And also, there is a lot of people who is not content with the current state of copyright - so many that Wikipedia had to open a page just for this issue[3]. So you're certainly not alone in your questioning. [0] https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/462700/what-is-the-etymology-of-the-term-piracy-in-respect-to-intellectual-property https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/462700/what-is-t... [1] https://www.defectivebydesign.org/ https://www.defectivebydesign.org/ [2] https://bandcamp.com/ https://bandcamp.com/ [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_copyright https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_copyright

muspimerol 5y ago

All of your questions have to do with copyright, which has little to do with the format of the thing you're purchasing (an mp3).

lelandfe 5y ago

> Pirates rob ships in the see and use guns for that purpose I presume. What a web site providing access to the music has to do with it? "Piracy" has been a term of art in the copyright world for over 100 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Copyrightpirates.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Copyrightpirates.jpg > Is it a property at all if the usage of it is limited? If you buy a copy of a book, you are not eligible to reprint that book and sell it yourself. There are limits on what folks can do with copyrighted works they buy. It might be worth reading, for instance, about the American concept of first-sale doctrine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

betterunix2 5y ago
"Piracy" has been a propaganda term in the copyright world... FTFY
- 123pie123 5y ago
  Piracy implies theft and sounds more serious; where as copyright infringement does not sounds as exciting... (from wikipedia...) Copyright infringement is the use of works protected by copyright law without permission for a usage where such permission is required, thereby infringing certain exclusive rights granted to the copyright holder, such as the right to reproduce, distribute, display or perform the protected work, or to make derivative works Theft is the taking of another person's property or services without that person's permission or consent with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it.
- akomtu 5y ago
  The correct term is probably greed: not giving back to the author of music, movie, software you use. But greed is also the foundation of our economy, so copyright owners had to come up with a different word.
  - betterunix2 5y ago
    Copyrights have very little to do with paying content creators. From the very first copyright law (the Statute of Anne) it was about securing profits for the industry, who invariably give only a tiny slice of those profits, if anything, to the content creators. Hollywood studios are famous for trying to screw actors, screenwriters, and others out of their share of blockbuster movie profits. Likewise with the music industry -- most musicians do not make anything close to enough money on record sales (or the modern equivalent) to live on, even as the studios themselves bring in vast sums of money. So in a sense you are right, "greed" is the operative word -- not on the part of people who download, but on the part of the people who benefit most from the copyright system.
lovelyviking 5y ago
It's unclear why 'monopoly over making copies' is called in your comment by confusing term 'copyright'. Why something that is not 'right' and cannot exist as 'right' called by this strange term? How one can have 'right' over what others do? May be you can explain also that? If such 'right' even exist then it belongs to people who wish to make copy of something isn't it? It's hard to see why how and who on earth is entitled to prohibit to anyone in having right to make a copy as long as a person who makes copy doesn't present such copy as original.

mistrial9 5y ago

We travel in ships, further than most Raiding and pillaging, from North to South coast We steal only metal like guns, tanks and toasters! We melt them all down, and make .. roller coasters! -anonymous

betterunix2 5y ago

"The whole 'buy mp3' idea always have been troubling for me because I can't figure out exactly what I actually buy there. What is it I purchase?" You purchased convenience -- not having to deal with filesharing systems that are polluted with various misidentified files, not having to try to figure out if the thing you are downloading is actually malware (for non-technical users this is often a challenge), not having to correct / create tags for the MP3 (artist/album/etc.), not having to guess at the quality of the audio (sometimes "lossless" actually means "preserved loss from some other format"), etc. For most people the convenience justifies the price.

dTal 5y ago
I think the parent meant something a bit different than "what are the pragmatic advantages of buying an mp3 as opposed to piracy" - rather, they wanted some kind of handle on what - legally and/or ethically - has actually been purchased.

danachow 5y ago

This does not even rise to high school level discourse. All of the points you bring up have been discussed more critically and insightfully on Body building forums. I’ll start with that you seem to be hung up on that the only thing money can be exchanged for is property.

taejo 5y ago
Thanks for the info. Next time I want to know what Amazon means when they sell me "MP3 Music", I will remember to go to body building forums before clicking "Buy"
- behringer 5y ago
  Amazon does provide the MP3 files themselves. https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=G6S668ZHKA8MK6T7 https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=... They surely make it difficult to find, though.
  - pulsarmx 5y ago
    I used to be able to actually buy MP3s from Amazon US. I actually have bought and downloaded a few albums this way. Then they launched Amazon Music (or whatever its name is) in my country, which only provides app-based access to music, and also took away my ability to buy MP3s from the US website and neglected to add it to my country's version of Amazon.
  - cheese_van 5y ago
    I tried to follow those convoluted instructions to no avail. Did it not like my Linux box? Who knows. But a company that made its fortunes making buying convenient should know better.
- skinnymuch 5y ago
  Your comment isn’t consistent with what you replied to. They said the discourse is better than that comment. Taking that to consulting the forums to know what Amazon means appears to not be a good faith response.

npteljes 5y ago

Culture and language evolve, an pirating became meaning getting authorized works without compensating the copyright holders. Apprently this usage dates back to the 1600s.[0] >What is it I purchase? Something that's legal according to your region's laws, copyright laws and the EULA. In case of unDRM-ed downloadable files, you most likely purchase the right for personal enjoyment or private screening of the media contained within the files, and of course the store often provides the files themselves too. As you noted, the legal part is often murky. In case of Hungary, you're permitted for example to back up your legally owned media, so you can legally rip your CDs for yourself. But this is not true for all regions. The copyright of the composition, the right the redistribute, or usage in a commercial environment is most often excluded when you just "buy and mp3". These are special cases where you need a different legal instrument, like a contract or license, and to pay way more than €1 per track. Now, onto the dark patterns. The media industry is rife with this. The first is that often you can read "buying", but it's way more restricted legally, and sometimes, the media itself is crippled with a mechanism that tries to enforce some legality[1] - this would be the DRM. Region locking, unskippable anti-piracy segment on the DVD, files that "stop working" after a while, media that's encrypted from file to display, albums/games disappearing or downgrading from your catalogue, there's a lot. Meanwhile you're often presented with how easy and cheap all this is, and how much in control you are - no you're not. If you feel angry or betrayed, that's because you're realizing the con. What can you do about this? Pirating is fine as a fuck you to the industry, but the creators of all the enjoyable goodness deserve compensation just like everyone else who does good work. So you can look for ways to support them that's more direct than licensing their music from a streaming giant. Bandcamp[2], for one, is quite excellent towards users and artists alike. And also, there is a lot of people who is not content with the current state of copyright - so many that Wikipedia had to open a page just for this issue[3]. So you're certainly not alone in your questioning. [0] https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/462700/what-is-the-etymology-of-the-term-piracy-in-respect-to-intellectual-property https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/462700/what-is-t... [1] https://www.defectivebydesign.org/ https://www.defectivebydesign.org/ [2] https://bandcamp.com/ https://bandcamp.com/ [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_copyright https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_copyright