9 ms·

Even if it was to avoid the association with Xi Jinping, so what? The entire point is to have neutral names for variants that don’t malign specific countries an

by _djo_ 5y ago

Even if it was to avoid the association with Xi Jinping, so what? The entire point is to have neutral names for variants that don’t malign specific countries and regions and let’s us discuss them without political baggage. Same with skipping Nu, it avoids confusion and ambiguity. There’s no previously hard and fast rule or principle being broken here, nor is the world worse off because the Greek alphabet is merely being used as a source of neutral names rather than being followed exactly linearly. I feel that anyone saying it’s a bad thing that Xi was skipped is probably doing so because they feel it would be edgy & funny or something China deserves, and not for any actual scientific credibility perspective.

booleandilemma 5y ago
I agree, I wouldn’t want a variant with my name in it either. They’re just being nice, as far as I’m concerned. This isn’t about China controlling or influencing the WHO.
jhbadger 5y ago
And yet they didn't skip Delta despite the confusion with one of the US' major airlines. Given that people fear getting Covid from flying, there was a lot of potential for confusion that the airline had to combat.
- xg15 5y ago
  They have rather clear guidelines on names: > adding that the agency’s “best practices for naming disease suggest avoiding `causing offence to any cultural, social, national, regional, professional or ethnic groups.”’ The list does not include brands. Also, there are different measures of confusion: "Nu" being confused with "new" is on a phonetic level and could make actual communication difficult. "Delta (the virus)" vs "Delta (the airline)" is semantic confusion and most people are quite capable of distinguishing those unless they deliberately want to be confused.
  - hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
    > "Delta (the virus)" vs "Delta (the airline)" is semantic confusion and most people are quite capable of distinguishing those unless they deliberately want to be confused. While I agree, it still boggles my mind how the Corona beer (and other Coronas, like the game SDK) have been stigmatized just by sharing the same name.
  - azinman2 5y ago
    What’s a professional group then?
    - xg15 5y ago
      I don't know their exact definition, but I'd assume something like all members of an occupation - e.g., a name like "pilot's disease" would probably fall into the banlist. I mean the whole pandemic is dubbed the "Coronavirus pandemic" - and while that's not an officially designated term, the WHO frequently uses it. If they had had any consideration for Corona the beer brand, they'd probably have made that known.
      - retrac 5y ago
        > If they had had any consideration for Corona the beer brand They've recently performed well above average, apparently.
      - grandphuba 5y ago
        > I don't know their exact definition So it is not clear contrary to your previous comment.
        xg15 5y ago
        Because I didn't bother to look it up. (And neither did you apparently) You can read the exact guidelines here: https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/163636/WHO_HSE_FOS_15.1_eng.pdf https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/163636/WHO_... In particular, they say: Disease names may NOT include: [...] - People's names [...] - Cultural, population, industry or occupational references. Examples: Occupational, legionnaires, miners, butchers, cooks, nurses What it again does not mention is brands.
- _djo_ 5y ago
  Was there really a strong likelihood that people were going to confuse Delta the variant with Delta the airline, to the point where it distracted from the global response? I don’t think so, and Delta seems to have suffered no specific harm from it. It’s not about whether the names can be linked to a real world entity. That’s going to be true for all of these in some way. But about what causes severe enough confusion or controversy to hamper things.
  - jhbadger 5y ago
    Delta airlines certainly thought so to the degree that they themselves don't call it "Delta" but rather the numerical designation 1.617.2. https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/delta-air-lines-really-doesn-t-want-to-call-the-delta-variant-the-delta-variant/ar-AANMp2I https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/delta-air-lines-really...
    - _djo_ 5y ago
      Yet in that same article they admit they hadn’t seen any actual negative impact. If you’re going to name your airline after the fourth letter of the Greek alphabet you can’t exactly claim ownership over the name or insist that nobody else ever use it for anything.
      - areyousure 5y ago
        And yet, if your name matches the 14th letter and is itself only two letters long in the Latin alphabet ...
- s5300 5y ago
  … I don’t know what to say to this comparison other than the brand “corona” beer is doing just fine and now profiting from joking about things. One is a brand, the other is a world leader with nukes in a country our previous president was regularly stoking racism against. There’s also been a massive influx of Asian hate crimes since president Jyyynah & coronavirus. I do not recall hearing many crimes against delta airlines because of any conspiracy theories involving them.
  - throwawaysea 5y ago
    > in a country our previous president was regularly stoking racism against No, Trump did not stoke racism against Asians. Seeking accountability from the CCP is not racist. Factually stating the origin of the virus is not racist. Stating something that inconveniences the CCP is not racist. Also names like “Wuhan virus” were in common broad use both in China and the US until it became a political tool to attack Trump. And also not everything is racist or xenophobic more generally. Such labels are applied inconsistently and selectively, especially in the case of Trump. For example consider how travel bans were allegedly racist and xenophobic under Trump but completely acceptable under Biden (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/flashback-biden-suggested-trumps-coronavirus-travel-ban-xenophobic https://www.foxnews.com/politics/flashback-biden-suggested-t...). > There’s also been a massive influx of Asian hate crimes I’m not sure where you live but the biggest fear of hate crimes against Asians has not been from something related to COVID. There is a massive spike in black on Asian crimes in the Bay Area (and a few other locations), which news media won’t even cover honestly (by either not running the story or not showing mugshots or not providing a description that includes race). Instead activist researchers have been gaslighting the Asian community with false studies claiming that the majority of hate crimes against Asians are from whites spurred on by COVID, based on those very news reports which often omit race when a black suspect is involved. Among the Asian community, these claims that white on Asian hate crimes are the majority are now seen as racist gaslighting.
    - s5300 5y ago
      > No, Trump did not stoke racism against Asians. Ahh, another day, another reminder that people on the internet simply can’t be reasoned with. More than 2/3rds of my town have Trump related paraphernalia visible on their property. Do you really want to tell me about what all Trump has stoked hate against. The fact you mention gaslighting is just grand, lol. Not directly related, but this comment reminds me of one of the last times I went to a movie theater in this area, whenever The Interview (Kim Jong-Un) came out. There was a group of… South Eastern Asians from their general appearance. Elderly owner of the movie theater who often does ticketing at night says, in one of the most fucked up tones of voices I’ve ever heard, “you aren’t all Koreans are you” to them. It was pretty disgusting. Funnily enough, he has his entire movie theater plastered in Trump praise & signage, something something he’s constitutionally still the president. You seem like you don’t understand the level of hate Trump has emboldened, or that you’re just one of the haters & want to troll.
freewilly1040 5y ago
If it’s to avoid the association with Xi Jinping, why not simply say so?
- _djo_ 5y ago
  Why be that specific? The WHO’s guidelines already made it clear why some names may be skipped. Referring to Xi Jinping directly would be counter-productive to their goal of depoliticising the name.
  - throwawaysea 5y ago
    Are you really asking why we expect the WHO to be transparent and honest? Because they are an institution that has been given a lot of trust and power. Because their attempts to shape a narrative can harm important efforts like accountability for the virus’s origins and early reporting/containment (or lack thereof). Because people don’t like being lied to or propagandized by overt attempts to shape public opinion. Because an allegedly scientific institution should not play political games.
    - xg15 5y ago
      They are pretty transparent. You can read their guidelines here: https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/163636/WHO_HSE_FOS_15.1_eng.pdf https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/163636/WHO_...
  - freewilly1040 5y ago
    Because ignoring the elephant in the room just makes that elephant all the more conspicuous. “We are skipping the name that collides with a prominent world leader, and will extend that courtesy to world leaders in the future” It would still be criticized but would have the advantage of being transparent.
    - xg15 5y ago
      Read their guidelines. They are purposely excluding any people's names. They wouldn't call it Trump virus or Biden disease or John Doe variant either.

by _djo_ 5y ago

booleandilemma 5y ago

I agree, I wouldn’t want a variant with my name in it either. They’re just being nice, as far as I’m concerned. This isn’t about China controlling or influencing the WHO.

jhbadger 5y ago

And yet they didn't skip Delta despite the confusion with one of the US' major airlines. Given that people fear getting Covid from flying, there was a lot of potential for confusion that the airline had to combat.

xg15 5y ago
They have rather clear guidelines on names: > adding that the agency’s “best practices for naming disease suggest avoiding `causing offence to any cultural, social, national, regional, professional or ethnic groups.”’ The list does not include brands. Also, there are different measures of confusion: "Nu" being confused with "new" is on a phonetic level and could make actual communication difficult. "Delta (the virus)" vs "Delta (the airline)" is semantic confusion and most people are quite capable of distinguishing those unless they deliberately want to be confused.
- hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
  > "Delta (the virus)" vs "Delta (the airline)" is semantic confusion and most people are quite capable of distinguishing those unless they deliberately want to be confused. While I agree, it still boggles my mind how the Corona beer (and other Coronas, like the game SDK) have been stigmatized just by sharing the same name.
- azinman2 5y ago
  What’s a professional group then?
  - xg15 5y ago
    I don't know their exact definition, but I'd assume something like all members of an occupation - e.g., a name like "pilot's disease" would probably fall into the banlist. I mean the whole pandemic is dubbed the "Coronavirus pandemic" - and while that's not an officially designated term, the WHO frequently uses it. If they had had any consideration for Corona the beer brand, they'd probably have made that known.
    - retrac 5y ago
      > If they had had any consideration for Corona the beer brand They've recently performed well above average, apparently.
    - grandphuba 5y ago
      > I don't know their exact definition So it is not clear contrary to your previous comment.
      - xg15 5y ago
        Because I didn't bother to look it up. (And neither did you apparently) You can read the exact guidelines here: https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/163636/WHO_HSE_FOS_15.1_eng.pdf https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/163636/WHO_... In particular, they say: Disease names may NOT include: [...] - People's names [...] - Cultural, population, industry or occupational references. Examples: Occupational, legionnaires, miners, butchers, cooks, nurses What it again does not mention is brands.
_djo_ 5y ago
Was there really a strong likelihood that people were going to confuse Delta the variant with Delta the airline, to the point where it distracted from the global response? I don’t think so, and Delta seems to have suffered no specific harm from it. It’s not about whether the names can be linked to a real world entity. That’s going to be true for all of these in some way. But about what causes severe enough confusion or controversy to hamper things.
- jhbadger 5y ago
  Delta airlines certainly thought so to the degree that they themselves don't call it "Delta" but rather the numerical designation 1.617.2. https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/delta-air-lines-really-doesn-t-want-to-call-the-delta-variant-the-delta-variant/ar-AANMp2I https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/delta-air-lines-really...
  - _djo_ 5y ago
    Yet in that same article they admit they hadn’t seen any actual negative impact. If you’re going to name your airline after the fourth letter of the Greek alphabet you can’t exactly claim ownership over the name or insist that nobody else ever use it for anything.
    - areyousure 5y ago
      And yet, if your name matches the 14th letter and is itself only two letters long in the Latin alphabet ...
s5300 5y ago
… I don’t know what to say to this comparison other than the brand “corona” beer is doing just fine and now profiting from joking about things. One is a brand, the other is a world leader with nukes in a country our previous president was regularly stoking racism against. There’s also been a massive influx of Asian hate crimes since president Jyyynah & coronavirus. I do not recall hearing many crimes against delta airlines because of any conspiracy theories involving them.
- throwawaysea 5y ago
  > in a country our previous president was regularly stoking racism against No, Trump did not stoke racism against Asians. Seeking accountability from the CCP is not racist. Factually stating the origin of the virus is not racist. Stating something that inconveniences the CCP is not racist. Also names like “Wuhan virus” were in common broad use both in China and the US until it became a political tool to attack Trump. And also not everything is racist or xenophobic more generally. Such labels are applied inconsistently and selectively, especially in the case of Trump. For example consider how travel bans were allegedly racist and xenophobic under Trump but completely acceptable under Biden (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/flashback-biden-suggested-trumps-coronavirus-travel-ban-xenophobic https://www.foxnews.com/politics/flashback-biden-suggested-t...). > There’s also been a massive influx of Asian hate crimes I’m not sure where you live but the biggest fear of hate crimes against Asians has not been from something related to COVID. There is a massive spike in black on Asian crimes in the Bay Area (and a few other locations), which news media won’t even cover honestly (by either not running the story or not showing mugshots or not providing a description that includes race). Instead activist researchers have been gaslighting the Asian community with false studies claiming that the majority of hate crimes against Asians are from whites spurred on by COVID, based on those very news reports which often omit race when a black suspect is involved. Among the Asian community, these claims that white on Asian hate crimes are the majority are now seen as racist gaslighting.
  - s5300 5y ago
    > No, Trump did not stoke racism against Asians. Ahh, another day, another reminder that people on the internet simply can’t be reasoned with. More than 2/3rds of my town have Trump related paraphernalia visible on their property. Do you really want to tell me about what all Trump has stoked hate against. The fact you mention gaslighting is just grand, lol. Not directly related, but this comment reminds me of one of the last times I went to a movie theater in this area, whenever The Interview (Kim Jong-Un) came out. There was a group of… South Eastern Asians from their general appearance. Elderly owner of the movie theater who often does ticketing at night says, in one of the most fucked up tones of voices I’ve ever heard, “you aren’t all Koreans are you” to them. It was pretty disgusting. Funnily enough, he has his entire movie theater plastered in Trump praise & signage, something something he’s constitutionally still the president. You seem like you don’t understand the level of hate Trump has emboldened, or that you’re just one of the haters & want to troll.

freewilly1040 5y ago

If it’s to avoid the association with Xi Jinping, why not simply say so?

_djo_ 5y ago
Why be that specific? The WHO’s guidelines already made it clear why some names may be skipped. Referring to Xi Jinping directly would be counter-productive to their goal of depoliticising the name.
- throwawaysea 5y ago
  Are you really asking why we expect the WHO to be transparent and honest? Because they are an institution that has been given a lot of trust and power. Because their attempts to shape a narrative can harm important efforts like accountability for the virus’s origins and early reporting/containment (or lack thereof). Because people don’t like being lied to or propagandized by overt attempts to shape public opinion. Because an allegedly scientific institution should not play political games.
  - xg15 5y ago
    They are pretty transparent. You can read their guidelines here: https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/163636/WHO_HSE_FOS_15.1_eng.pdf https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/163636/WHO_...
- freewilly1040 5y ago
  Because ignoring the elephant in the room just makes that elephant all the more conspicuous. “We are skipping the name that collides with a prominent world leader, and will extend that courtesy to world leaders in the future” It would still be criticized but would have the advantage of being transparent.
  - xg15 5y ago
    Read their guidelines. They are purposely excluding any people's names. They wouldn't call it Trump virus or Biden disease or John Doe variant either.