3 ms·

> Of course, they have a choice lol, no they don't. a certain hash wins, every ~10 minutes. that hash is calculated from sha(block, nonce), where nonce is the

> Of course, they have a choice lol, no they don't. a certain hash wins, every ~10 minutes. that hash is calculated from sha(block, nonce), where nonce is the randomized part that miner mutates to get different hashes. once a hash that satisfies the protocol is found - that's it, you can't choose a different block to append to the chain. it is just laughable that i have to explain this level of basics.

Jweb_Guru 5y ago
Okay, and who chooses the block? (Hint: it's the node that wins leader election). Maybe this article will help you understand just how nonessential the fact that the block is part of the SHA actually is: https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/nsdi16/nsdi16-paper-eyal.pdf https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/nsdi16/nsdi16.... Please read the whole article, and then come back so we can have a discussion on equal footing.
- keymone 5y ago
  > Okay, and who chooses the block? well certainly not the winner of the "election", because by the time that "election" starts, the block is already constructed. and i'm not going to read any of your links until you actually start understanding the basics of bitcoin protocol. though your lack of understanding explains perfectly why you fall for scammy bells and whistles of competing bitcoin-wannabes. "bitcoin new generation". lol, give me a break.
  - Jweb_Guru 5y ago
    The peer-reviewed paper to which I linked, which I am not proposing as a replacement for Bitcoin, explains (to those who are willing to read it) why the block being chosen before or after the leader election does not matter when it comes to the security and consensus properties of Bitcoin. It is important for you to understand that this does not matter so you can understand why when the block is chosen does not change the fact that leader election is being performed. Again, I'll ask you, since you keep dodging the question: if the node elected as leader is (according to you) not choosing the block, who is choosing the block? Why are you so obsessed with whether the value was chosen "before" or "after" the election, which is an irrelevant detail of the protocol? If you can't answer these things and won't read the paper, I don't really see any reason to keep talking to you, because all you've done is make the same irrelevant point over and over.
lottin 5y ago
Where do you think the transactions included in the block come from? The miner picks them.
- keymone 5y ago
  and now the weaseling starts. i asked a very specific question: 1. once the "leader" is "elected" 2. do they have a choice of what block to append? you said they do, which is fundamental lack of understanding of how bitcoin works.
  - lottin 5y ago
    The question that you asked was: > when the leader is elected every 10 minutes, do they get a choice of what block they append to the chain? and the answer is yes, the miner that gets elected chooses which transactions to append to the chain. Do they pick the transactions after getting elected? No, they pick them before getting elected. In fact, it doesn't matter whether they pick the transactions before or after getting elected, because their chances of getting elected are unaffected by which transactions they picked. Therefore, it makes absolutely no difference. The fact that you think it makes a difference tells me you're very confused about the role miners have in the bitcoin network.
    - keymone 5y ago
      The answer is no and you’re clueless if you think otherwise. The “leader” has no choice in blocks or transactions after they “win” the “election”.
      - UncleEntity 5y ago
        The "leader" has no choice after they win the current round but they do have a choice as to what to include in the winning block before they start hashing. Maybe they act like all the other rational miners and optimize by mining fees. Maybe they include no transactions and only take the miner reward. Maybe they they don't like the Dutch so all their transactions are excluded. It really doesn't matter as all y'all have been arguing over is what to call the person who won the current round.
randomNumber7 5y ago
lol, they don't understand you

Jweb_Guru 5y ago

Okay, and who chooses the block? (Hint: it's the node that wins leader election). Maybe this article will help you understand just how nonessential the fact that the block is part of the SHA actually is: https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/nsdi16/nsdi16-paper-eyal.pdf https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/nsdi16/nsdi16.... Please read the whole article, and then come back so we can have a discussion on equal footing.

keymone 5y ago
> Okay, and who chooses the block? well certainly not the winner of the "election", because by the time that "election" starts, the block is already constructed. and i'm not going to read any of your links until you actually start understanding the basics of bitcoin protocol. though your lack of understanding explains perfectly why you fall for scammy bells and whistles of competing bitcoin-wannabes. "bitcoin new generation". lol, give me a break.
- Jweb_Guru 5y ago
  The peer-reviewed paper to which I linked, which I am not proposing as a replacement for Bitcoin, explains (to those who are willing to read it) why the block being chosen before or after the leader election does not matter when it comes to the security and consensus properties of Bitcoin. It is important for you to understand that this does not matter so you can understand why when the block is chosen does not change the fact that leader election is being performed. Again, I'll ask you, since you keep dodging the question: if the node elected as leader is (according to you) not choosing the block, who is choosing the block? Why are you so obsessed with whether the value was chosen "before" or "after" the election, which is an irrelevant detail of the protocol? If you can't answer these things and won't read the paper, I don't really see any reason to keep talking to you, because all you've done is make the same irrelevant point over and over.

lottin 5y ago

Where do you think the transactions included in the block come from? The miner picks them.

keymone 5y ago
and now the weaseling starts. i asked a very specific question: 1. once the "leader" is "elected" 2. do they have a choice of what block to append? you said they do, which is fundamental lack of understanding of how bitcoin works.
- lottin 5y ago
  The question that you asked was: > when the leader is elected every 10 minutes, do they get a choice of what block they append to the chain? and the answer is yes, the miner that gets elected chooses which transactions to append to the chain. Do they pick the transactions after getting elected? No, they pick them before getting elected. In fact, it doesn't matter whether they pick the transactions before or after getting elected, because their chances of getting elected are unaffected by which transactions they picked. Therefore, it makes absolutely no difference. The fact that you think it makes a difference tells me you're very confused about the role miners have in the bitcoin network.
  - keymone 5y ago
    The answer is no and you’re clueless if you think otherwise. The “leader” has no choice in blocks or transactions after they “win” the “election”.
    - UncleEntity 5y ago
      The "leader" has no choice after they win the current round but they do have a choice as to what to include in the winning block before they start hashing. Maybe they act like all the other rational miners and optimize by mining fees. Maybe they include no transactions and only take the miner reward. Maybe they they don't like the Dutch so all their transactions are excluded. It really doesn't matter as all y'all have been arguing over is what to call the person who won the current round.

randomNumber7 5y ago

lol, they don't understand you