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Yes, we are going to vaccinate our way out of this. Humanity has made tremendous progress in the fight against virus infections the last two years. There is no

Yes, we are going to vaccinate our way out of this. Humanity has made tremendous progress in the fight against virus infections the last two years. There is no reason to assume that this progress is already all we got. Can we create and distribute 7B doses in a month? I don't see, why that's impossible. Can we react to mutations quicker than these mutations infect the global population? We have all the right tools. So why is it not already happening, you ask? Because it's only been two years of fighting the virus. We will need some time to reflect on the experience and design a system that works in the next case. But when we play our cards correctly, this might very well be the last respiratory pandemic ever.

mandmandam 5y ago
Lol. But even allowing for astoundingly unlikely future advancements, what about the animal reservoirs? And where in the current media narrative are you seeing 7 billion vaccinations as a goal? What about people who don't want a medical procedure against their will? And how in the world do you think we'll get there with the state of IP legislation? Where's the discussion on that? I love the optimism bud, but can we be a little realistic here please.
- choeger 5y ago
  You keep throwing stuff together, seemingly without understanding the terms you use. There's no media pushing for 7B because there's no global medium. If you count the nation-wide newspapers and add the numbers you'll end up with about 7B, modulo nations that have no free media, of course. People that don't want vaccinations will at some point be treated like people that don't want blood transfusion. Sad, but it's their choice. IP legislation has nothing to do with any lack of doses. The BionTech vaccine could be manufactured in one plant for world-wide consumption, if needed. The current pace is dictated by supply chain constraints, manufacturing setup effort, orders, and distribution. Any other vendor would face the very se issue. If someone would want to order an additional billion of doses, BionTech/Pfizer could certainly deliver. In fact, there are so many ways to code the spike protein that there's no way IP is preventing other vendors from setting up a competing product. It's manufacturing experience that makes the difference now.
  - mandmandam 5y ago
    I am quite careful to understand the words I use. Your lack of specifics makes it hard to know what you mean though. > there's no global medium ... He said on the internet. > People that don't want vaccinations will at some point be treated like people that don't want blood transfusion. Glad to hear you say this, but didn't you also just say that eradicating the virus by vaccinating 7 billion people is possible and to be aimed for? > IP legislation has nothing to do with any lack of doses. It sure does. https://www.citizen.org/article/pfizers-power/ https://www.citizen.org/article/pfizers-power/ I suggest you start trying a little harder to understand what I'm saying before arguing or saying I don't know what I mean. And, until you address the issue of animal reservoirs your entire argument has a planet sized hole in it.
- maxerickson 5y ago
  If the protein subunit vaccines work out, availability will be much less of a problem (because they would add a bunch of a capacity and are easier to handle). Of course vaccine hesitancy/resistance is not solved by availability.
helloworld11 5y ago
If you really claim that this may be the last respiratory pandemic ever, you're either a fool or deliberately exaggerating your way into an absurd claim. Furthermore, the obsession with "stopping the spread" of something whose spread plainly can't be stopped EVEN with draconian security theater and lockdown measures is simply misguided. It's a classic case of shifting goal posts right into Goodheart's Law in the sense that the much more reasonable previous focus on stopping hospitalization and death rates has been shifted to a manic focus on case numbers period, regardless of their real harm to people. As a result, we risk containment measures causing much more harm than the increasingly harmless cases of the virus themselves, as it inevitably becomes an endemic part of our human infection cycle. This is what so many previous viral diseases have done and we've learned to live with them quite decently. Enough bloody hysteria about every new variant or spread of the virus unless it's actually harming large numbers of people to a dangerous degree.

mandmandam 5y ago

Lol. But even allowing for astoundingly unlikely future advancements, what about the animal reservoirs? And where in the current media narrative are you seeing 7 billion vaccinations as a goal? What about people who don't want a medical procedure against their will? And how in the world do you think we'll get there with the state of IP legislation? Where's the discussion on that? I love the optimism bud, but can we be a little realistic here please.

choeger 5y ago
You keep throwing stuff together, seemingly without understanding the terms you use. There's no media pushing for 7B because there's no global medium. If you count the nation-wide newspapers and add the numbers you'll end up with about 7B, modulo nations that have no free media, of course. People that don't want vaccinations will at some point be treated like people that don't want blood transfusion. Sad, but it's their choice. IP legislation has nothing to do with any lack of doses. The BionTech vaccine could be manufactured in one plant for world-wide consumption, if needed. The current pace is dictated by supply chain constraints, manufacturing setup effort, orders, and distribution. Any other vendor would face the very se issue. If someone would want to order an additional billion of doses, BionTech/Pfizer could certainly deliver. In fact, there are so many ways to code the spike protein that there's no way IP is preventing other vendors from setting up a competing product. It's manufacturing experience that makes the difference now.
- mandmandam 5y ago
  I am quite careful to understand the words I use. Your lack of specifics makes it hard to know what you mean though. > there's no global medium ... He said on the internet. > People that don't want vaccinations will at some point be treated like people that don't want blood transfusion. Glad to hear you say this, but didn't you also just say that eradicating the virus by vaccinating 7 billion people is possible and to be aimed for? > IP legislation has nothing to do with any lack of doses. It sure does. https://www.citizen.org/article/pfizers-power/ https://www.citizen.org/article/pfizers-power/ I suggest you start trying a little harder to understand what I'm saying before arguing or saying I don't know what I mean. And, until you address the issue of animal reservoirs your entire argument has a planet sized hole in it.
maxerickson 5y ago
If the protein subunit vaccines work out, availability will be much less of a problem (because they would add a bunch of a capacity and are easier to handle). Of course vaccine hesitancy/resistance is not solved by availability.

helloworld11 5y ago

If you really claim that this may be the last respiratory pandemic ever, you're either a fool or deliberately exaggerating your way into an absurd claim. Furthermore, the obsession with "stopping the spread" of something whose spread plainly can't be stopped EVEN with draconian security theater and lockdown measures is simply misguided. It's a classic case of shifting goal posts right into Goodheart's Law in the sense that the much more reasonable previous focus on stopping hospitalization and death rates has been shifted to a manic focus on case numbers period, regardless of their real harm to people. As a result, we risk containment measures causing much more harm than the increasingly harmless cases of the virus themselves, as it inevitably becomes an endemic part of our human infection cycle. This is what so many previous viral diseases have done and we've learned to live with them quite decently. Enough bloody hysteria about every new variant or spread of the virus unless it's actually harming large numbers of people to a dangerous degree.