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How the ancient Romans managed their toilets
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- cblconfederate 5y agoToilet rather than bathroom, since their baths were amazing.
- azalemeth 5y agoI agree with this. The original title is ``What toilets and sewers tell us about ancient Roman sanitation''.
- kgwgk 5y agohttps://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/go-to-the-bathroom https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/go-to-th...
- GoodbyeMrChips 5y agoAs the Cambridge dictionary says, 'Bathroom' is US English for toilet. Hence the confusion. I do find the use of euphemisms in the USA such has 'bathroom' (mate, where is the bath?) or 'restroom' (I don't need a rest, I need a shit) a little odd. Here in Blighty, it is perfectly fine to ask the butler in Buckingham Palace where the toilet is. Or the bog for that matter :-)
- kgwgk 5y agoThe British euphemism "going to the toilet" for pissing/shitting is also a little odd: https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/760afb9b-6723-4206-bfdb-d832a180963c https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/760afb9b-6723-4206-bfdb-d832a18... And toilet itself is a washing-related euphemism like bath or lavatory. It comes from the French word toilette (little piece of cloth).
- GoodbyeMrChips 5y agoOh certainly. A more well spoken person in Britain will always say 'lavatory' instead of 'toilet'. https://theconversation.com/toilet-or-lavatory-how-words-britons-use-betray-national-obsession-with-class-52719 https://theconversation.com/toilet-or-lavatory-how-words-bri...
- antognini 5y agoThere is some humorous graffiti in the latrine at Ostia Antica (pictured in the article). The Seven Sages of Greece had permeated the collective consciousness to such an extent in Rome that some unknown individual inscribed some graffiti referencing some of them. For example, one graffito reads: "Ut bene cacaret, ventrum palpavit Solon," which translates to "To shit well, Solon rubbed his belly." Another says, "Durum cacantes monuit ut nitant Thales," which translates to, "Thales admonished those shitting to strain hard." Another: "Vissire tacite Chilon docuit subdolus", or "Sly Chilon taught to fart silently." To get the modern cultural connotation, substitute "Thales" or "Solon" for "Einstein" or "Abraham Lincoln". Some of the other graffiti do not reference the Seven Sages. The Seven Sages graffiti use a higher register --- past tense and a meter associated with comedies. But the other graffiti are in a lower register --- present tense and no meter. One of these others recommends "shake yourself about so you'll go faster." One of these also references the tersorium, or sponge on a stick, that the article discusses. (Also called a xylospongium.) The graffito reads "No one talks to you much, Priscianus, until you use the sponge on a stick."
- dctoedt 5y ago> To get the modern cultural connotation, substitute "Thales" or "Solon" for "Einstein" or "Abraham Lincoln". In standard English, the verb "substitute" would have to have the names reversed: "substitute 'Einstein' ... for 'Thales'" as opposed to the other way around. Or change the verb and preposition: "replace 'Thales' ... with 'Einstein' ...."
- dymk 5y agoMy "Standard English" brain correctly interpreted GP's comment with no ambiguity, so yours seems rather unnecessary
- dctoedt 5y agoJust because you were able to resolve the ambiguity doesn't mean there wasn't a problem. Precision matters: Ambiguity is perhaps the leading reason that parties to contracts find themselves embroiled in costly, dragged-out lawsuits: When a term in a contract could plausibly be interpreted in multiple ways, and there's money riding on the outcome, the lawyers for both sides will come up with all kinds of arguments why their client's interpretation should win. Here, the GGP's misuse of the language doesn't really matter. But it's still better to stick to the standard, so that when it does matter, the meaning will be clear.
- GhettoComputers 5y agoThey mention togas a lot, most Romans didn’t wear togas day to day, they were ceremonial like suits.
- beloch 5y agoFrom another article[1] on the topic by an archaeologist: "Even worse, these public latrines were notorious for terrifying customers when flames exploded from their seat openings. These were caused by gas explosions of hydrogen sulphide (H2S) and methane (CH4) that were rank as well as frightening. Customers also had to worry about rats and other small vermin threatening to bite their bottoms. And then there was the perceived threat of demons that the Romans believed inhabited these black holes leading to the mysterious underbelly of the city." Sounds like it was far better if you could hold it until you got home to your own private toilet, which was probably in the kitchen right next to where your slaves were preparing your next meal[2]. [1] https://phys.org/news/2015-11-toilets-sewers-ancient-roman-sanitation.html https://phys.org/news/2015-11-toilets-sewers-ancient-roman-s... [2] https://scx2.b-cdn.net/gfx/news/hires/2015/564dcb76b9497.jpeg https://scx2.b-cdn.net/gfx/news/hires/2015/564dcb76b9497.jpe...
- saganus 5y agoAny idea why would they put the latrines next to, or apparently even _inside_ the kitchen? I get that they might not haven been aware of germs or correlated bathrooms with disease or whatever, but just based on the odors alone, it seems a strange decision...
- voidfunc 5y agoYour slaves worked in the kitchen. Nobody cared too much whether it smelled.
- Koshkin 5y agoIt kind of does matter what the kitchen smells of.
- Pasorrijer 5y agoThis is entirely guessing. But if you were drilling a hole to the sewers, both the toilet and the kitchen needed a hole so that could greatly simplify plumbing and construction.
- Incerto 5y agoI had to stop reading when the author started talking about how togas gave them more privacy. 99% of Romans never wore a toga, and of those that did, they were only used for senate hearing and other special / public business.
- nescioquid 5y agoEven if I grant you are completely correct about your assertions about togas (I contest it), it seems whatever was said of the toga could apply to a tunic/chiton, himation, or whatever else people were wearing.
- bluGill 5y agoThe Romans were not afraid of nudity. The public baths that this were next too would have been taken nude with other men. Most people learn about Romans from the Christians as the story of Jesus is with the backdrop of Roman rule. However the Christians inherited their nudity views from the Jews. Thus in the biblical areas there would be less nudity because of the Jews, and then the biblical writers would have censored the nudity parts even more to keep it christian friendly. Thus our cultural attitudes around nudity despite coming from a Roman area have nothing to do with what Romans would have felt.
- holoduke 5y agoThe French, the Italians and the Spanish are generally very open minded towards nudity. This is quite compatible with the old Roman way of looking at it. The US together with most Germanic and Anglosaxic countries are much more strict.
- mseepgood 5y agoThe claim that they wiped with a sponge on a stick is probably wrong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24coYKPga9o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24coYKPga9o
- hardlianotion 5y agoThat would be a good thing. The sharing thing they're supposed to have had with them is quite unacceptable.
- ChuckMcM 5y agoOne wonders if you could apply some of this technology to make passive toilet facilities for cities.
- testmasterflex 5y agoI have a toilet related startup; https://Loodio.com https://Loodio.com - an automatic music player for bathrooms that gives the user privacy while using a toilet. People find the idea awkward to talk about but I find it funny and necessary - Apparently one of the Seven Sages agrees with me according to the article.
- kerev989 5y agoSome of the things said in this article are ridiculous. Especially the wiping your butt with a communal sponge-on-a-stick. Even if we are to believe that the same people who went to such great lengths to rid their cities of waste would then share sponges with faeces on them, why would you reach around with a long stick to clean yourself? How would that even work? This looks exactly like modern shower sponges made for reaching your back. Try wiping with one. Also the claim that these toilets were for the unwashed masses, yet those same people supposedly wore togas on a day-to-day basis. Who even writes this crap?...
- mellavora 5y agoOk, joke time. <principle software engineer> comes out of the bathroom. Wife says "Don't you know how to use the toilet brush?" "Yes", he says, "but I prefer the paper" feel free to substitute a different minority group if you don't like poking fun at principle software engineers.
- retrac 5y ago> why would you reach around with a long stick to clean yourself? How would that even work? Roman toilets usually had a slot cut into them allowing access from the front underneath: https://i0.wp.com/followinghadrian.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/23151330411_c46639da33_b1.jpg?fit=1024%2C678&ssl=1 https://i0.wp.com/followinghadrian.com/wp-content/uploads/20... sometimes right down to the floor. You can see how someone might get the idea. Though honestly it could have been just to make it easier to clean them.
- kerev989 5y agoSo they cut through stone in order to accommodate the sh*t-stick? :D
- tres 5y agoI recon that the cutout in front of the toilet has a purpose... the existence of that cutout seems to align well with the idea that one might put a sponge on a stick through it in order to clean their back orifice. The toga thing has been addressed by others as our cultural mores being projected on people with different values... Otherwise, I found the article interesting and entertaining. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- Maursault 5y agoDo the images of the toilets appear a little tall to anyone? If average height of a Roman male was 5'5", then I expect most of them could not sit with their feet flat on the floor, but could only reach it with their toes, or dangled their feet, or braced against the side.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- jihadjihad 5y agoAs a kid, I distinctly and fondly remember visiting a castle [0] built on the edge of Lake Geneva. The two most prominent memories of the visit I have are the dungeon, which was awesome and horrifying, and the fact that the "toilets" were just holes in a long plank of wood [1] built alongside the rear castle wall, which hung over the water--no flushing necessary. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chillon_Castle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chillon_Castle 1: https://www.flickr.com/photos/tomislavmedak/3812153036 https://www.flickr.com/photos/tomislavmedak/3812153036
- dexwiz 5y agoThis is a pretty common thing in castles. Moats were disgusting because they were basically open latrines.
- jihadjihad 5y agoSeems like an added deterrent for any would-be assailants. Along with the usual issues moats present, raw sewage floating around would certainly make me think twice about a night swim across the moat.
- gigatexal 5y agoWhat a fascinating read. The first article here I’ve read to completion.
- binthere 5y agoYou can actually see similar systems being used today in underdeveloped/developing countries, from toilet to sewage.
- iostream23 5y agoThis was a great toilet read, not too long, not too short, although I’m somewhat of a speed reader. Now where did that sea sponge on the end of a stick go? No wait, that’s the toilet brush.
- gue-ni 5y ago"11 asses may have been paid for the removal of manure" - the roman coin "As" makes for a funny wordplay here