4 ms·

Really? Asking because people send him locks all the time from all over the world, and he opens them all.

lrvick 5y ago
He doesn't open them all. He videos the ones he -can- open to shame them. The Kwikset smart key v3 can't be picked because you get no feedback until all pins are set. You can decode them one pin at a time with expensive specialized tools such as a micro camera put into the cylinder but they will keep someone out for a while so they do their job. You still need to cut a custom key to get in even when you decode it so it is time consuming. A Medeco will keep out even an experienced lockpicker for a while since pins must be in the right rotation and the right heights. Beyond that there are really good Disk Detainer locks like the Protec 2 that have no feedback until all discs are correct. There are 0 public confirmed defeats of them. Beyond that you get into hybrid digital keys like the Cliq. Then you can combine an cylinder known to not have any defeats with a second set of pins that can only be engaged after an AES challenge/response between a microcontroller in the key and one in the lock. These also have never been defeated. There are also solutions like the Bowley lock that don't expose the tumblers to the outside world and can only be defeated with many hours of work making custom tools for that specific lock. I could go on and on. The reason you can't buy good locks at US hardware stores is fully because the uneducated masses rejected high security locks once companies like master lock pumped out $5 locks with 10/10 security ratings in spite of any informed child being able to open them. I would love to see people like LPL put their lawyer hats on and sue these companies for dangerously deceptive advertising.
- asimpletune 5y ago
  Ah ok, interesting. Thanks for the information. I wonder if LPL is on HN and is reading any of this.
- paulhart 5y ago
  He also talks about things he can't pick - here's a video on the Bowley where he almost immediately admits he can't pick it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qV8QKZNFxLw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qV8QKZNFxLw There are a couple of (old) videos on Medeco locks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmyC7KM5Qxk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmyC7KM5Qxk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fh6IHCr7uo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fh6IHCr7uo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avwt39uHDOQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avwt39uHDOQ Related to the Disc Detainer (come for the tooling discussion, stay for the picking): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRO5wzAaT00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRO5wzAaT00
  - lrvick 5y ago
    Others have picked the Bowley even though LPL can't but it is more time and work than anyone could reasonably be able to do in a real world application so if anything those efforts are a strong endorsement of the lock.
    - mkl 5y ago
      This guy makes it look pretty easy, and doesn't use advanced tools or anything, just a piece of metal bent to go around the obstacle like the key does (i.e. totally reasonable time and work): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS0FSzamUzc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS0FSzamUzc Linked by ryzvonusef: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29367579 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29367579
      - lrvick 5y ago
        Fascinating! Of course if anyone did it, it would be huxley. It feels like Bowley underestimated strong vibration attacks like that and didn't invest enough in spool/serrated pins. I suspect this is correctable, but I wonder if it would work as well mounted in a sturdy door since the vibration is not directly connecting with the pins.
- BenjiWiebe 5y ago
  Kwikset Smart Key V3 can be picked, for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--tva7GA9f4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--tva7GA9f4 Protec2: Very very difficult to pick, however there are videos of a few picking it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zVSJ_wauwg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zVSJ_wauwg (https://www.reddit.com/r/lockpicking/comments/edrrjo/hardest_lock_in_the_world_abloy_protec2_picked/ https://www.reddit.com/r/lockpicking/comments/edrrjo/hardest...) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsG90UGRTpw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsG90UGRTpw (https://www.reddit.com/r/lockpicking/comments/mie59t/abloy_protec2_picked_gutted/ https://www.reddit.com/r/lockpicking/comments/mie59t/abloy_p...) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UZ6tcvgd9U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UZ6tcvgd9U The Protec2 I would trust far more than the Kwikset SmartKey V3, since it appears only several of the best of the locksport community have been able to pick it. I couldn't find record of anyone opening a Cliq. I'd be hesitant to say that's because they are unpickable, though. I believe quite a number of the locksport community would not be very interested in attempting to open a Cliq as it isn't purely mechanical.
  - lrvick 5y ago
    Fair points and thanks for the corrections. I underestimated how many new developments the pandemic would yield since I last did a deep dive here. Still they are all well designed locks. I recommend the smartkey v3 for people that need a lot of locks they can source quickly on a budget. The sidebar design is a real pain to defeat and if the lock is in a body with tight tolerances you may not be able to shim the sidebar at all. Without some kind of attack to tension the sidebar they can't be directly picked. For those with more money to burn the Medecos are good security for dollar. I put a couple Protecs on my luggage as tamper evidence devices so the TSA has to call me when they need to search it. I would not bother with Protecs on a home as they are very expensive and there are generally better areas you can invest in home security for that kind of money but if you have a small number of ingress doors they are nice. I don't think anything is unpickable/unbackable but when the time to defeat a particular lock someone has not seen before takes 10 minutes to hours and few if any in the world can do it I classify it as a "good" lock when the status quo can be defeated in seconds.
    - 5y ago

He doesn't open them all. He videos the ones he -can- open to shame them. The Kwikset smart key v3 can't be picked because you get no feedback until all pins are set. You can decode them one pin at a time with expensive specialized tools such as a micro camera put into the cylinder but they will keep someone out for a while so they do their job. You still need to cut a custom key to get in even when you decode it so it is time consuming. A Medeco will keep out even an experienced lockpicker for a while since pins must be in the right rotation and the right heights. Beyond that there are really good Disk Detainer locks like the Protec 2 that have no feedback until all discs are correct. There are 0 public confirmed defeats of them. Beyond that you get into hybrid digital keys like the Cliq. Then you can combine an cylinder known to not have any defeats with a second set of pins that can only be engaged after an AES challenge/response between a microcontroller in the key and one in the lock. These also have never been defeated. There are also solutions like the Bowley lock that don't expose the tumblers to the outside world and can only be defeated with many hours of work making custom tools for that specific lock. I could go on and on. The reason you can't buy good locks at US hardware stores is fully because the uneducated masses rejected high security locks once companies like master lock pumped out $5 locks with 10/10 security ratings in spite of any informed child being able to open them. I would love to see people like LPL put their lawyer hats on and sue these companies for dangerously deceptive advertising.

asimpletune 5y ago
Ah ok, interesting. Thanks for the information. I wonder if LPL is on HN and is reading any of this.
paulhart 5y ago
He also talks about things he can't pick - here's a video on the Bowley where he almost immediately admits he can't pick it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qV8QKZNFxLw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qV8QKZNFxLw There are a couple of (old) videos on Medeco locks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmyC7KM5Qxk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmyC7KM5Qxk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fh6IHCr7uo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fh6IHCr7uo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avwt39uHDOQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avwt39uHDOQ Related to the Disc Detainer (come for the tooling discussion, stay for the picking): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRO5wzAaT00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRO5wzAaT00
- lrvick 5y ago
  Others have picked the Bowley even though LPL can't but it is more time and work than anyone could reasonably be able to do in a real world application so if anything those efforts are a strong endorsement of the lock.
  - mkl 5y ago
    This guy makes it look pretty easy, and doesn't use advanced tools or anything, just a piece of metal bent to go around the obstacle like the key does (i.e. totally reasonable time and work): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS0FSzamUzc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS0FSzamUzc Linked by ryzvonusef: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29367579 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29367579
    - lrvick 5y ago
      Fascinating! Of course if anyone did it, it would be huxley. It feels like Bowley underestimated strong vibration attacks like that and didn't invest enough in spool/serrated pins. I suspect this is correctable, but I wonder if it would work as well mounted in a sturdy door since the vibration is not directly connecting with the pins.
BenjiWiebe 5y ago
Kwikset Smart Key V3 can be picked, for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--tva7GA9f4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--tva7GA9f4 Protec2: Very very difficult to pick, however there are videos of a few picking it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zVSJ_wauwg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zVSJ_wauwg (https://www.reddit.com/r/lockpicking/comments/edrrjo/hardest_lock_in_the_world_abloy_protec2_picked/ https://www.reddit.com/r/lockpicking/comments/edrrjo/hardest...) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsG90UGRTpw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsG90UGRTpw (https://www.reddit.com/r/lockpicking/comments/mie59t/abloy_protec2_picked_gutted/ https://www.reddit.com/r/lockpicking/comments/mie59t/abloy_p...) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UZ6tcvgd9U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UZ6tcvgd9U The Protec2 I would trust far more than the Kwikset SmartKey V3, since it appears only several of the best of the locksport community have been able to pick it. I couldn't find record of anyone opening a Cliq. I'd be hesitant to say that's because they are unpickable, though. I believe quite a number of the locksport community would not be very interested in attempting to open a Cliq as it isn't purely mechanical.
- lrvick 5y ago
  Fair points and thanks for the corrections. I underestimated how many new developments the pandemic would yield since I last did a deep dive here. Still they are all well designed locks. I recommend the smartkey v3 for people that need a lot of locks they can source quickly on a budget. The sidebar design is a real pain to defeat and if the lock is in a body with tight tolerances you may not be able to shim the sidebar at all. Without some kind of attack to tension the sidebar they can't be directly picked. For those with more money to burn the Medecos are good security for dollar. I put a couple Protecs on my luggage as tamper evidence devices so the TSA has to call me when they need to search it. I would not bother with Protecs on a home as they are very expensive and there are generally better areas you can invest in home security for that kind of money but if you have a small number of ingress doors they are nice. I don't think anything is unpickable/unbackable but when the time to defeat a particular lock someone has not seen before takes 10 minutes to hours and few if any in the world can do it I classify it as a "good" lock when the status quo can be defeated in seconds.
  - 5y ago